VAR thread 2022/23

[KentBlue]

There surely cannot be any doubts that the rags are being protected - as they have been for many a long year.

PGMOL is as corrupt an organisation as the bloody mafia. Signing non-disclosure contracts? What the fuck for? What are they hiding? The referees make a decision and if any manager dares to question that decision they are given a huge fine and banned for a handful of games. If a player (non-rag, of course) dares to question the decision he may be sent off and will also miss some games - and still the referee answers to no one.
Where else would you be permitted to basically make the rules up as you go along, and not have to explain yourself to anyone? Why should we only have the referees word that he isn't biased? What if he runs onto the pitch at the start of the game and he's already decided he doesn't want a certain team to win? No matter the amount of time spent on the training ground, perfecting everything that you possibly can, only to have all your work undone simply because the ref doesn't like you?
I stopped going to live games because I refuse to hand my money over to an organisation that is indirectly subsidising the rags. Fuck 'em.


We are being conned by PGMOL, and it's about time someone started asking some serious questions of an organisation
that has been systematically syphoning off taxpayer's money for way way too long.

 

[SebastianBlue]

I always thought you were ticking the box of wanting less VAR?

Now you're suggesting we should have more, and that not only more, it should be for yellow cards/incorrectly given free kicks, instead of only reds/goals.

If you don't trust VAR, then giving them an opportunity to yellow card City players, simply by saying that they *thought* it *might* be a red, doesn't seem to be an obvious path to take.

Or is it only when it's "clear and obvious" that you want more VAR ;)

I think you are confusing me with someone else.

I have never argued for less VAR. I have argued for an implementation that isn’t based on allowing for high variance in outcomes and, thus, vulnerability to manipulation. I.E. extensive reform from the current state which makes very little sense except in the context of trying to allow for attempting to manipulate match outcomes.

Nor was I even indicating in this instance that decisions should be changed:

simply by saying that they *thought* it *might* be a red

Not sure why you are trying to build a strawman there.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Yes - because that means that you're now introducing an additional way for VAR to intervene, and one with a much lower bar. Refs make mistakes - but you're suggesting they should overturn the minor ones, but ONLY when there's a VAR review for red?

By doing that you've now made it a condition of every VAR red review to look for a possible yellow, which is obviously a much lower bar. So, it's only when they suspect a red, but then decide it's a yellow that they intervene. All the other instances where it should have been yellow, or a foul is given the wrong way, aren't considered - just some.

It's nothing to do with PGMOL - every VAR system would be the same - they can't start dishing out yellows, or overturning fouls, just because there happened to be a red review.

Yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting, and I still don't see a problem with it, assuming the point of VAR is to get decisions right. If they get the referee to look at tackles 50 yards away in the build-up to a goal if they think he has made a mistake, I don't see why they can't get the referee to look at an incident again if he has made a mistake as part of a red review.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting, and I still don't see a problem with it, assuming the point of VAR is to get decisions right. If they get the referee to look at tackles 50 yards away in the build-up to a goal if they think he has made a mistake, I don't see why they can't get the referee to look at an incident again if he has made a mistake as part of a red review.

It is odd that the argument against VAR intervention in the case of yellow card offences—by people that believe the current iteration of VAR increases the rate of correct decisions—seems to be “but then they’ll get more decisions correct, who wants that!?”

 

[OntarioBlue]

I just wanted to also emphasise that giving Casemiro a yellow with more than 75 minutes left in the match would have significantly impacted United’s ability to keep us in check, as well.

It is something that is getting lost in the debate of why he was not sent off.

Tierney was “balancing” the match by farcically giving the free kick in favour of United, as otherwise he would have had to at least give Casemiro a yellow, hamstringing the ref for the rest of the match, given Casemiro is notorious for putting in many cynical and/or late challenges throughout a match.

For me, it was an intentional ploy to avoid booking Casemiro.

It’s a good theory but could it simply be that the referee made a mistake by awarding the free kick to the Rags and that VAR determined that Casemiro’s challenge was not worthy of a red card. VAR does not get involved unless it’s a red thus the original decision stands.

Thats the way VAR works at the moment. If we want VAR ato overturn foul decisions and award yellow cards, the game, which is already on a precipice, will be well and truly fucked.

 

[SebastianBlue]

It’s a good theory but could it simply be that the referee made a mistake by awarding the free kick to the Rags and that VAR determined that Casemiro’s challenge was not worthy of a red card. VAR does not get involved unless it’s a red thus the original decision stands.

Thats the way VAR works at the moment. If we want VAR ato overturn foul decisions and award free kicks, the game, which is already on a precipice, will be well and truly fucked.

I think that is an exceptionally generous interpretation given the evidence of the rest of the match.

And, regarding VAR intervening in potential yellow card incidents missed by referees leading to the end of football, I simple ask this:

What is the point of VAR?

 

[Father Paul]

It’s a good theory but could it simply be that the referee made a mistake by awarding the free kick to the Rags and that VAR determined that Casemiro’s challenge was not worthy of a red card. VAR does not get involved unless it’s a red thus the original decision stands.

Thats the way VAR works at the moment. If we want VAR ato overturn foul decisions and award free kicks, the game, which is already on a precipice, will be well and truly fucked.

Good point. I think it was one of those orange cards so just shy of a red and no need to alert the ref. The ref got it wrong but not wrong enough. Your right VAR intervening to award yellow cards and free kicks would be farcical.

 

[TheBlueCat]

There surely cannot be any doubts that the rags are being protected - as they have been for many a long year.

PGMOL is as corrupt an organisation as the bloody mafia. Signing non-disclosure contracts? What the fuck for? What are they hiding? The referees make a decision and if any manager dares to question that decision they are given a huge fine and banned for a handful of games. If a player (non-rag, of course) dares to question the decision he may be sent off and will also miss some games - and still the referee answers to no one.
Where else would you be permitted to basically make the rules up as you go along, and not have to explain yourself to anyone? Why should we only have the referees word that he isn't biased? What if he runs onto the pitch at the start of the game and he's already decided he doesn't want a certain team to win? No matter the amount of time spent on the training ground, perfecting everything that you possibly can, only to have all your work undone simply because the ref doesn't like you?
I stopped going to live games because I refuse to hand my money over to an organisation that is indirectly subsidising the rags. Fuck 'em.


We are being conned by PGMOL, and it's about time someone started asking some serious questions of an organisation
that has been systematically syphoning off taxpayer's money for way way too long.

PGMOL are in the pockets of the Premier League. This is where their funding comes from. This explains the constant meddling with the laws of the game. The PL want a spectacle, a real title race, the ‘popular’ teams (big 6/ hateful 8/ cartel). This will never be a benefit to us. We are constantly being undermined by the PL and of course a new number of notable so called, journalists. I was a referee for many years and still know quite well a few of the lads in the select group. I can assure ppl that the guys I know are not corrupt and are frustrated, like all of us , with the nonsense guidelines currently applied. Of course, we can never account for outright incompetence, such as Attwell in the OT derby.

Personally, the cons of VAR completely outweigh the pros. I couldn’t hate it more. It has ruined football for me and has only resulted in ridiculous law changes and changes to guidance to the point that the players (most important actors here) do not understand the laws of the game. It should be binned - but won’t be.

 

[bluenova]

I think you are confusing me with someone else.

I have never argued for less VAR. I have argued for an implementation that isn’t based on allowing for high variance in outcomes and, thus, vulnerability to manipulation. I.E. extensive reform from the current state which makes very little sense except in the context of trying to allow for attempting to manipulate match outcomes.

Nor was I even indicating in this instance that decisions should be changed:


Not sure why you are trying to build a strawman there.

Apologies if I've misinterpreted your opinion.

This post suggests that you think VAR is used to manipulate results, which is what I thought your position was (and I'd assumed you want less of it because of that). Given that's the case, allowing any intervention in situations like the Casimero one, just lowers the bar, and allows the possibility of more manipulation.

Hence the point about City being screwed over. I don't think it's a strawman at all, I'm suggesting that if you believe VAR is used to manipulate outcomes, then making that easier by looking at more decisions, feels relevant to me.

 

[OntarioBlue]

I think that is an exceptionally generous interpretation given the evidence of the rest of the match.

And, regarding VAR intervening in potential yellow card incidents missed by referees leading to the end of football, I simple ask this:

What is the point of VAR?

Now that is a very good question. You don’t need a very long memory to remember how bad the standard of refereeing was in this Country (no English officials at the World Cup)

VAR was intended to eliminate refereeing errors in certain key areas of the game.

Has the standard of refereeing improved and has the game improved since the introduction of VAR ? Absolutely NOT in my opinion. If anything it’s got worse.

On field reviews work really well in Cricket, Rugby and American Football (and other sports) largely because the process is transparent. If the VAR was mic’d up and we could see and hear what they are looking at it would be much better.