VAR thread 2022/23

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bluenova said:
I expect all new systems are over sold, but not sure I agree that it's so difficult.

Why wouldn't they calibrate them? And I'd guess they're not in positions that are easily knocked - and perhaps can work with 10 cameras so have built in redundancy?

If you're measuring 500 times a second, then you're not guessing anything. There would be changes in the ball velocity/direction as soon as any contact was made, during contact, and then when it leaves the foot.

There can be a change in velocity over 1/50th of a second, but it's not someone with a ruler and graph paper trying to work it out. With multiple data points, and huge amounts of training, AI will be able to work out pretty accurately what's happened to every part of a player's body.

And as you say, it's likely more accurate, and if the current system is more accurate that a person, then it's another improvement.
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The camera frame rate is still 50fps, no matter how many time you sample it per second.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Interesting if true. Webb at least recognises the detachment from the game that VAR brings. And he's right about letting fans have access to the conversations. But this bit makes me fucked off with the yanks taking over our game. And tbh with them owning the crown jewels in the PL I can see things like this taking over.

"And he has also been part of the discussion gaining traction in America of 60-minute games where the clock is stopped every time the ball goes out of play."
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Has tgere been any positive noises about tge water breaks, and how quarter's may be beneficial to the game yet, cheerleaders?
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
The camera frame rate is still 50fps, no matter how many time you sample it per second.
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But you're not watching a single camera. You're using multiple cameras, along with AI, which will have been trained to work out where a body will be between those data points.

Sure, if you record a single position on a person's head and they accelerates in the middle of two 1/50 frames, then you can't know when that acceleration starts. However if you have the full body tracked, then AI which has watched millions of players move and compared them with the data, will be able to fill in the blanks much more accurately that any camera, or any human. It will know from small movements across the whole body exactly what the player's head is doing.

And ultimately, if it's more accurate than a human, and more accurate than a human looking at a camera, then it's an improvement.
 
Colin Bells Holdall said:
I am an engineer and on a drawing I would add a tolerance say for a linear dimension. So 300cm +\0-.5cm means that when the inspector measures the manufactured part it has to be 300cm long however the tolerance means it can be anywhere between 295.5cm to 300.5cm and not .01 of a cm more or less than the tolerance dimensions.
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So you're an engineer, and you would accept a manufactured part that is 295.5cm in length, when your drawing specified 300cm with a tolerance of +/- 0.5cm? Remind me not to buy one of your houses.
 
bluenova said:
But you're not watching a single camera. You're using multiple cameras, along with AI, which will have been trained to work out where a body will be between those data points.

Sure, if you record a single position on a person's head and they accelerates in the middle of two 1/50 frames, then you can't know when that acceleration starts. However if you have the full body tracked, then AI which has watched millions of players move and compared them with the data, will be able to fill in the blanks much more accurately that any camera, or any human. It will know from small movements across the whole body exactly what the player's head is doing.

And ultimately, if it's more accurate than a human, and more accurate than a human looking at a camera, then it's an improvement.
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I'll reserve full judgement until it's up and running and had a period of settling in. Even if they make it FULLY automatic I still think there will be a significant margin of error. And if there is any human input into the decision making process then we are no better off than under the old system.
 
In reply to multiple people, the off side law hasn’t actually changed in a long time. It used to be three players instead of two but that changed a long time ago.

It has always technically been judged from a part of the body that can legally score a goal. But that has never really mattered when it was being judged by a bloke with a flag just off the pitch. They brought in this T-shirt line thing to try and help establish exactly which part of the arm is handball and how high you have to go for it not to be. It’s still highly subjective though.

If we’re going to be judging things on inches, I think the best solution would be to amend the off side law so it is judged on boot position only.
 
Stephen230 said:
In reply to multiple people, the off side law hasn’t actually changed in a long time. It used to be three players instead of two but that changed a long time ago.

It has always technically been judged from a part of the body that can legally score a goal. But that has never really mattered when it was being judged by a bloke with a flag just off the pitch. They brought in this T-shirt line thing to try and help establish exactly which part of the arm is handball and how high you have to go for it not to be. It’s still highly subjective though.

If we’re going to be judging things on inches, I think the best solution would be to amend the off side law so it is judged on boot position only.
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Position of the head for me, for two reasons:

firstly, players use their eyes to judge whether they are offside or not, or if they are playing someone offside or not, the position of their boots has no bearing on their play;

secondly, boots move with feet in a running motion, it's pretty stupid to penalise someone for having a foot protracted in a normal running motion. Remember Foden (last year was it?). His head was onside, his torso was onside, but his foot was offside because he was striding forwards. At a different phase of the stride, his head, torso and both feet would have been onside. This makes offside calls a lottery based on where a player is in his stride. You can't expect players to manage that. You can expect them to judge the timing of runs based on what he sees. With his eyes. In his head.

Just my thoughts.
 
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