VAR thread 2022/23

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If we consider that the top players are more than capable of sprinting at >20mph (8.94m/s), and the frame rate of VAR is 50fps then 1 single frame difference at 20mph is a huge margin of error (17.9cm), and that 5cm margin pales into insignificance.

Even running at 10mph (4.47m/s) the 50fps camera gives a single-frame margin of error of nearly 9cm, so for them to spout a 'tolerance' is laughable.

The problem is that offside decisions don't only happen at high speed, they also happen at virtual standstills.

And if you made the tolerance 10cm then in those situations you'd start to have offsides that look obvious to the human eye being given as onside. Which would cause a massive fuss.
 
You get sent the FA interpretations which basically outline how FIFA expect you to ref any game. You certainly could get them on line in the past. The problem is your elite refs then get sent the PL interpretations which sometimes differ to the FIFA laws. Recent ones I can think of is the handball law and off side. Why do the PL think they are above the actual laws is a mystery?
Thanks for that. The "secrecy" is the crux of the matter I think. There is no reason not to be transparent, unless there is something to hide. Hence the continual conspiracy theories.
 
True - but it's a compromise. I believe the clubs had to agree on it, and they're not all going to be as clued up, or even may not want something that can look more controversial, even if it's correct (or depending on how they play, the cynic might suggest some don't want to give attackers more advantage).

Ultimately, it's always going to be more accurate than an assistant with a flag, and will improve as technology improves.
I'm not sure technology is going to improve.

With higher frame rates you either need to increase the exposure proportionally, or increase the sensitivity of the camera's sensor.

Increasing the exposure, either by lowering the shutter speed, or widening the aperture comes with its own problems (motion blur/shallow depth of field). In increasing the sensitivity of the image sensor you introduce noise into the image and it becomes increasingly grainy.

Alternatively you could increase the brightness of the floodlights, but if you increase the frame rate to 100fps (a 9cm margin of error at 20mph) you would have to effectively double the brightness of the floodlights, and nobody wants to have their retinas burned out playing football.
 
The problem is that offside decisions don't only happen at high speed, they also happen at virtual standstills.

And if you made the tolerance 10cm then in those situations you'd start to have offsides that look obvious to the human eye being given as onside. Which would cause a massive fuss.
Apart from the above arguments why does it take so long to come up with a decision when we are involved.
 
I'm not sure technology is going to improve.

With higher frame rates you either need to increase the exposure proportionally, or increase the sensitivity of the camera's sensor.

Increasing the exposure, either by lowering the shutter speed, or widening the aperture comes with its own problems (motion blur/shallow depth of field). In increasing the sensitivity of the image sensor you introduce noise into the image and it becomes increasingly grainy.

Alternatively you could increase the brightness of the floodlights, but if you increase the frame rate to 100fps (a 9cm margin of error at 20mph) you would have to effectively double the brightness of the floodlights, and nobody wants to have their retinas burned out playing football.
Clearly you know a lot about this, but surely things like calculating positions by combining multiple cameras is one way? It also seems to be an obvious application for AI.

EDIT: Just googled it, and the semi-automatic system for the world cup based on this kind of tech, so not limited to a single camera's fps.
 
I thought this season we could hear the conversations between the ref and VAR like in cricket and rugby after the game had finished.

Or am I imagining that?

I'm afraid you are.

It was suggested as something which could happen, but there was no commitment to make it happen.

At best, I think it'll be waiting for Riley to go in the autumn, and then it'll be down to the new brooms.
 
Clearly you know a lot about this, but surely things like calculating positions by combining multiple cameras is one way? It also seems to be an obvious application for AI.
What is the PL's definition of when a pass is made? Is it when the foot first 'appears' to contact the ball, or is it when the ball 'appears' to leave the foot?

Dig out some slow motion video of a football being kicked on YouTube and see if you can work out the exact moment a ball is kicked, or when the ball leaves the foot. When is the pass actually made? Then imagine it at 50/100fps. It becomes totally subjective and I guarantee more than a single frame margin of error.

Sure, it could be worked out by knowing the EXACT position/velocity/direction of the passers foot, and the EXACT position/velocity/direction of the ball, plus the EXACT position of the attacker at the moment the pass is made (PREDICTED from the previous 6 bits of information) but that would require a lot more than a handful of cameras that would have to be calibrated to a high tolerance and synchronised.

VAR for offside is at best is a ball park estimation (pun intended), and the margin of error leaves it wide open to abuse.
 
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Apart from the above arguments why does it take so long to come up with a decision when we are involved.

I'd agree with @bluenova, you just think they take longer because when it's your team that's relying on a decision the wait is agonising.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if all decisions were studied and top 6 decisions took longer because the referees are more worried about getting them wrong in higher stakes games with bigger audiences.
 
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