VAR thread 2022/23

[bluenova]

If the new tolerances had been notified, surely there‘ll be evidence on line.

Here are a few mentions from the 1st page on a google search. Pretty sure, it would have been in every newspaper, and sports website.

The ultimate guide to VAR in the Premier League - all your questions answered

Want to understand exactly how VAR works in the Premier League and other competitions? This is your one-stop shop for all your questions.

www.espn.co.uk

Premier League bid to change controversial offside line system on VAR

EXCLUSIVE BY JAMES SHARPE: The Premier League are planning a renewed attempt to persuade FIFA to allow a 'margin of error' on the tight offsides that continue to plague the game.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Premier League to use thicker lines for VAR offside decisions next season

Premier League video assistant referees will use thicker lines in order to determine offside calls next season. The use of VAR has come in for plenty of critici

www.90min.com

New Premier League VAR rules explained ahead of upcoming season

Rules around offside, handball and ‘streetwise’ penalty plays have all been tweaked

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Hmmm... I would suggest that trying to override an automatic decision, in front of a variety of people from different organisations, that is expected to be shown in the stadium and on TV is Ocean's 11 level scamming :)

If the prize is big enough...

Plus, it doesn't have to be done in full view. I could be that someone has access to real time calibration adjustments, or the ability to perform a system interrupt at any given moment.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Here are a few mentions from the 1st page on a google search. Pretty sure, it would have been in every newspaper, and sports website.

The ultimate guide to VAR in the Premier League - all your questions answered

Want to understand exactly how VAR works in the Premier League and other competitions? This is your one-stop shop for all your questions.

www.espn.co.uk

Premier League bid to change controversial offside line system on VAR

EXCLUSIVE BY JAMES SHARPE: The Premier League are planning a renewed attempt to persuade FIFA to allow a 'margin of error' on the tight offsides that continue to plague the game.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Premier League to use thicker lines for VAR offside decisions next season

Premier League video assistant referees will use thicker lines in order to determine offside calls next season. The use of VAR has come in for plenty of critici

www.90min.com

New Premier League VAR rules explained ahead of upcoming season

Rules around offside, handball and ‘streetwise’ penalty plays have all been tweaked

www.independent.co.uk

And, there it was.

 

[bluenova]

If the prize is big enough...

Plus, it doesn't have to be done in full view. I could be that someone has access to real time calibration adjustments, or the ability to perform a system interrupt at any given moment.

So, every time the team they want to win is attacking, they recalibrate so it's to their advantage, and every time the opponents attack they do the opposite. And no-one spots that one side is constantly getting wrong decisions? And the system doesn't flag up that it's being recalibrated every minute? You're looking at the programming team inserting some kind of back door to do this.

As for interrupts, when do they do the interrupt? It can't be every offside decision, as that would clearly be noticed. If it's just after a goal, then the decision will already have been made and flashed up to the VAR team. If it shuts off coincidentally just after a close decision on a goal happens, then there's going to be an inquiry into why that happened.

There are much easier ways to fix a match.

 

[Blue Mist]

I’ll try and word this a bit more politely than I came across last time. But there were journalists on Twitter who discussed it at great length before the start of last season. I also remember it been discussed on one of those Sunday morning Sky Sports programmes. Just because you’re not aware of something it doesn’t automatically make it sinister.

Nice one, good come back. When something new is implemented there are often problems, a good business sorts them out quickly and is open and honest about the process.
One of the problems re var is how they implemented it. It was almost a do as we say and don't ask questions, especially if you are a fan. Once scepticism starts it is hard to remove.
I have just read the Mail article and it is sensible and clear, sadly it is about 3 years too late. Why can they not state why a player was offside and even use the screens in the ground to show it? Why can't we hear them? Other sports tell fans why it was a foul etc.
Pigmob and the Premier League do seem to make everything awkward.
Finally, re the Trippier foul. If the ref had announced that he believed it was a studs first challenge, therefore a red but, on looking at the replay he accepts he was wrong, there would be 25 less pages on this thread because we would have understood his decision.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

So, every time the team they want to win is attacking, they recalibrate so it's to their advantage, and every time the opponents attack they do the opposite. And no-one spots that one side is constantly getting wrong decisions? And the system doesn't flag up that it's being recalibrated every minute? You're looking at the programming team inserting some kind of back door to do this.

As for interrupts, when do they do the interrupt? It can't be every offside decision, as that would clearly be noticed. If it's just after a goal, then the decision will already have been made and flashed up to the VAR team. If it shuts off coincidentally just after a close decision on a goal happens, then there's going to be an inquiry into why that happened.

There are much easier ways to fix a match.

There are much easier ways to fix a game.

But the odd VAR 'glitch' would go relatively unnoticed because the operators (who incidentally have invested £Millions in the technology) are't going to say anything because that would be essentially admitting that the system they claimed was accurate can't be relied upon.

Say it happens 10-20 time a season, different teams, in matches that don't effect promotion/relegation/the title/CL places. Those kind of patterns are incredibly difficult to spot, and as long as they don't get too trigger happy, nobody is ever going to know. Someone being influence by a betting syndicate could do a lot of damage.

 

[Blue Mist]

Here are a few mentions from the 1st page on a google search. Pretty sure, it would have been in every newspaper, and sports website.

The ultimate guide to VAR in the Premier League - all your questions answered

Want to understand exactly how VAR works in the Premier League and other competitions? This is your one-stop shop for all your questions.

www.espn.co.uk

Premier League bid to change controversial offside line system on VAR

EXCLUSIVE BY JAMES SHARPE: The Premier League are planning a renewed attempt to persuade FIFA to allow a 'margin of error' on the tight offsides that continue to plague the game.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Premier League to use thicker lines for VAR offside decisions next season

Premier League video assistant referees will use thicker lines in order to determine offside calls next season. The use of VAR has come in for plenty of critici

www.90min.com

New Premier League VAR rules explained ahead of upcoming season

Rules around offside, handball and ‘streetwise’ penalty plays have all been tweaked

www.independent.co.uk

Thanks for those @bluenova It states how a goal can be ruled out if a foul is committed in the attacking phase.
It does not explain when an attacking phase starts, perhaps you can?
It is easy if DeGea has the ball and as usual lumps it to Rashford who commits a foul before crossing it to Ronaldo to score. Dead simple.
We have 70% possession our attack can start with Eddie throwing it to kdb who fouls someone before playing it to Bernie, 5 minutes later we are going across the 18yd box for the 4th time before Mahrez shoots and scores.
That is the problem, or one of them at least.

 

[SWP's back]

Agreed that this is a sensible move but the dubious aspect is where he talks about 'once the ball release frame has been agreed' 'it is locked in'. Previous articles have shown a +/-3 frame (at 50 frames a second) possibility. These new guidelines do not build in any margin of era for that subjective choice. Assuming a player is moving in one direction at 12 seconds per 100m (quite slow sprint) that equates to 16 cm + or - for each 3 frame margin (32cm over all = 1ft if defender and attacker moving at samespeed in opposite directions. )
Now show that tolerance in the lines and VAR begins to look rediculous. Faster frame rates will help. Be interesting to see if semi automated works. Either way, it is plainly wrong for the article to state Offsides are now a 'fact'.

Totally agree, but building in more tolerance (as they’re now doing) is a step in the right direction and far more in the spirit of the law (to stop goal hanging). The last few weeks have shown VAR to stop a good few miscarriages. It’s no where near perfect but it’s much better than previously. I remember Kane being 6 yards offside and there was fuck that could be done after he scored. That sort of thing fucked me off far more.

 

[bluenova]

Thanks for those @bluenova It states how a goal can be ruled out if a foul is committed in the attacking phase.
It does not explain when an attacking phase starts, perhaps you can?
It is easy if DeGea has the ball and as usual lumps it to Rashford who commits a foul before crossing it to Ronaldo to score. Dead simple.
We have 70% possession our attack can start with Eddie throwing it to kdb who fouls someone before playing it to Bernie, 5 minutes later we are going across the 18yd box for the 4th time before Mahrez shoots and scores.
That is the problem, or one of them at least.

I believe that wouldn't be an issue.

The FA site says, "The starting point for a phase of play that leads to a goal or penalty incident will be limited to the immediate phase and not necessarily go back to when the attacking team gained possession. Other factors for consideration will be the ability of the defence to reset and the momentum of the attack."

In your situation, I would guess that the KdB foul doesn't affect anything because the defending team have had time to reset. Pretty sure phases are quite short usually.

I remember there being a discussion before VAR was introduced, where the teams agreed that they didn't want to go back very far from a goal (doesn't stop them complaining now obviously).

 

[SWP's back]

RE this "tolerance" amendment - I have asked around about it and I have not found one person who knew about it. Personally the rashford goal was the first time I have heard it mentioned - make of that what you want.

I’m guessing one of the guys leading it knows what he’s talking about it.