VAR thread 2022/23

[SebastianBlue]

For all the whys and wherefores, to have a poll suggesting that car was implimented solely to assist united and liverpool makes us look small time as fuck

It’s not suggesting anything, it’s asking a question based on a running narrative being put forth by various posters in the thread.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Or you can acknowledge that I wasn’t wrong when I said many on here think VAR was set up solely to benefit Liverpool & Man Utd - you tried to get me on this by setting up the poll and it’s backfired

I think even you can see why that counts as a conspiracy

My opinion, VAR was bought in to assist referees and officials on clear mistakes they’ve missed and for them to have a second look - it’s been bought in worldwide and for the most part, it’s a success that is improving season by season - there will always be the odd incorrect decision despite VAR and technical issues - it’s whether you believe these issues are on purpose for one big conspiracy or not.

I am not sure how it has backfired when the results thus far still do not support your original claim?

 

[SebastianBlue]

Bear in mind some posters (including the OP) use apps like Tapatalk on mobile devices, and these don't include functionality to vote on polls.

It's a ludicrous notion that VAR was implemented to favour certain clubs. For one reason, it is used in countries where those clubs will never compete. For me, it's a question of bias, and whether any bias is applied deliberately, or under instruction. Very difficult to prove without evidence.

The evidence we do have is limited at the moment. There are the Halsey comments. The more tenuous suggestions that unqualified Match Commanders can influence VAR decisions. Unanswered questions about communications between officials - I'm thinking of why Taylor changed his mind about a foul on Aguero, or Madley's gesture to his linesman in the Liverpool game.

From my own point of view as a former referee, my starting point is to ask if there is any plausible explanation for an event. Looking at the Salah goal, this is a misinterpretation of a directive given this season, and offside was the correct decision. Why is a professional referee, on at least £70,000 a year, making these mistakes? Why didn't anyone in the VAR room use the clarification they had been given at the start of this season? It's inexcusable. For the disallowed goal, could the linesman possibly have seen in his field of vision, from supposedly being in line with the last defender, ANY Wolves player to the right of Alexander-Arnold when the ball was headed to Nunes? 100% not, from the angles we've seen. Did he raise his flag immediately as the goal was scored? It appears not, because camera angles suggest he had turned back towards the half way line. Did he raise his flag before or after the hand gesture from Madley? Undoubtedly after.

Two different refereeing mistakes directly benefiting one team in one game gives a very strong indication of at best, bias. I hope Wolves receive some proper explanations, and there is some real accountability to go with them.

You understand I don’t believe that VAR was designed and implemented solely to benefit Liverpool and United, right?

I have explained at length my position, including this summary from yesterday.

I agree, it was hyperbole to suggest most people believed that VAR was designed and implemented solely to benefit Liverpool and United.

You know my stance, which I would wager is more in line with how most view the current iteration of VAR:

It was designed and implemented to allow the greatest amount of freedom to influence match outcomes possible with a video review system in an attempt to "protect the product".

It is not always successful, nor is it always to benefit Liverpool or United. But the mere fact that the league had resisted implementing it for decades after it was implemented successfully elsewhere in the world, and then did so in a fashion that most neutral observers see was strangely flawed from the start, is a big clue as to the overarching intention.

The league could have easily created substantially more transparency and confidence in the new VAR setup from the very beginning with a more robust design and more consistent and open implementation and refinement, but they chose not to do that. And they have actually made changes over the past few years to make VAR *less* transparent, which it self is bewildering.

Excuses presented for all of these decisions are naïve, at best, and sycophantic, at worst.

And this is coming from someone that desperately wanted VAR to be adopted in England and Spain for literally decades.

The poll was added because some believe “most people” active in this thread think it was brought in to solely benefit Liverpool and United. And after months debate, could not be dissuaded from that belief, so I wanted to put it to bed.

And right now, even with the shoddy nature of polls on here, it is reflecting that *most* people active in this thread (and who have voted) do not hold that belief.

I’d wager a guess that there are a fair few voting yes just to be contrarian, as well.

 

[SebastianBlue]

The poll question is too black and white, it should have asked - Is VAR being exploited to manipulate results?

It was intentionally limited in scope (black and white).

The broader version will come after the ridiculous narrative that most blues believe VAR was brought in to solely benefit Liverpool and United is hopefully put to bed.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Silly poll as I’ve acknowledged other factors for people’s conspiracy theories

He expected 0% aswell

The poll was in response to your original claim that most blues (the “conspiracy brigade”) believe VAR was brought in to solely benefit Liverpool and United. Then, when I posted the poll and you were called out on how ridiculous that claim was, you began qualifying your statement.

Let’s not revise history to make your original stance seem more reasonable.

I expected something to what we are seeing now. At no time did I say I expected that *no one* would believe that, so stop trying to again make ridiculous claims.

 

[Gray]

It was intentionally limited in scope (black and white).

The broader version will come after the ridiculous narrative that most blues believe VAR was brought in to solely benefit Liverpool and United is hopefully put to bed.

It wasn’t brought in to benefit anybody we all know that.

It has though been to the Scousers benefit because of “technical” problems at their shit-hole ground.

 

[SWP's back]

Which begs the question, why do we need var.

Mate. Re-read that whole exchange. It was low 80’s or high 70’s prior (source dependent), it’s now 94% INCLUDING VAR. Which does anything but beg that question.

 

[KentBlue]

you were called out on how ridiculous that claim was, you began qualifying your statement.

You're wasting your time with that Hammer85 chap. I blocked him years ago because I believe he's a troll.

 

[SWP's back]

44% of people are lunatics.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

It wasn’t brought in to benefit anybody we all know that.

It has though been to the Scousers benefit because of “technical” problems at their shit-hole ground.

Richard Scudamore might disagree ;-)

 

[SebastianBlue]

It wasn’t brought in to benefit anybody we all know that.

It has though been to the Scousers benefit because of “technical” problems at their shit-hole ground.

You and I know most don’t believe it has been brought in to benefit certain clubs specifically, but certain very active posters in this thread, for months, have been claiming most on here do believe it, hence the wording and posting of the poll.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Mate. Re-read that whole exchange. It was low 80’s or high 70’s prior (source dependent), it’s now 94% INCLUDING VAR. Which does anything but beg that question.

To be fair, I recall officiating accuracy being regularly reported as 90+% prior to VAR being implemented. Which would be expected, as they wouldn’t be reporting that about 1 out of every 5 decisions are incorrect, would they. Especially given they had been resisting implementing video review for decades after it had been used and continually refined elsewhere in the world.

It’s fairly common for past data points to be revised when an entity needs to provide proof of efficacy for a new policy. Happens all the time in non-sport industry. In fact, there’s an entire industry built up to support such endeavours.

I know, because I used to audit it. ;-)

44% of people are lunatics.

*44% of those that have responded. It’s probably not actually 44%, though.

 

[SebastianBlue]

You're wasting your time with that Hammer85 chap. I blocked him years ago because I believe he's a troll.

I am holding out hope he isn’t, but he is testing my patience, I have to admit.

 

[kaz7]

not sure on commentary/studio reaction

I've had a look, most see it as he lost his footing and a unfortunate accident - also he apologises within seconds. others seem to think it was deliberate

they could review this but there is no way of proving he meant that deliberately

If a dipper player or his wife or kid was lying there he would not have stepped on their head, that is my defintion of what is on ourpose or not, he meant it

 

[kaz7]

The poll question is too black and white, it should have asked - Is VAR being exploited to manipulate results?

This x ten

 

[BlueHammer85]

You're wasting your time with that Hammer85 chap. I blocked him years ago because I believe he's a troll.

People confuse having a different opinion for being a troll

12 years I’ve been here and never had a ban

 

[Stephen230]

You could argue it's easier. The referee could make a marginal decision one way knowing full well it's the other way and VAR are stuck with the 'clear & obvious' get out. Same with Yellow Cards that should be Red - Ref gives it, VAR doesn't overturn it.

It's not only VAR decisions though. I've seen throw ins clearly come off opposing players and the ref/lino gives it the opposite way. You also have the disparity in applying the LOTG where opposition players can foul with impunity, yet ours are first foul yellow card. Then there is the application of the advantage rule and the ref blocking the passing lanes (as a particular referee used to do regularly with Spanish Dave). Then there is the subsequent stat padding towards the end of the game (booking a couple of opposition players for cheap fouls) to level things up when the match result sewn up. ALL theses things can affect the outcome of a game without VAR's intervention.

Just for clarity are you saying that in your opinion some referees have intentionally made a conscious effort to put themselves in a position between two City players for the express purpose of discouraging a pass from one to the other?

 

[BlueHammer85]

And right now, even with the shoddy nature of polls on here, it is reflecting that *most* people active in this thread (and who have voted) do not hold that belief.

Ive acknowledged there’s other factors for the conspiracy brigade, even still… 44% of posters do think VAR is solely bought in to benefit Liverpool and Man Utd - my original throw away claim wasn’t that far off

 

[SebastianBlue]

Ive acknowledged there’s other factors for the conspiracy brigade, even still… 44% of posters do think VAR is solely bought in to benefit Liverpool and Man Utd - my original throw away claim wasn’t that far off

Again, you only acknowledge them after I called you out on your original claim.

Then you posted an entirely fictious claim that I thought *no one* believed that VAR was brought in to benefit Liverpool and United. And have conveniently chosen not to respond to my rebuttal of that claim. That does look a lot like wumming.

You keep making false claims, being called out on them, then later acting as if you were right or that you never made them in the first place.

I think it is time we put this to bed, though, as the nonsense is taking over the thread.

Stop referring to the "conspiracy brigade"--as it is perilously close to wumming--and just continue to debate the merits of the topic.

This x ten

Again, the wording of the poll was purposeful.

 

[SWP's back]

Ive acknowledged there’s other factors for the conspiracy brigade, even still… 44% of posters do think VAR is solely bought in to benefit Liverpool and Man Utd - my original throw away claim wasn’t that far off

Mad how their [red scum] fans think it’s biased towards City who’ve apparently paid VAR off isn’t it. The issue (problem?) with football fans is that it’s often so tribal that we end up with the worst case of myopia imaginable. Every manager thinks the ref did a bad job against their team (Klopp especially), every fan usually thinks similar, it’s normally disinterested 3rd parties that are more likely to have a neutral opinion but none of us are disinterested 3rd parties where City are concerned on here. So we end up with some going down the rabbit hole.