Vat on Independent school fees?

I'm With Stupid said:
Exactly. The thing about the public sector is that while it's often reliable, the earning potential is effectively capped at whatever the government of the day is willing to pay, and there are often limited other opportunities. If you qualify as a nurse or a teacher, you're basically working in the public sector all your life. If you qualify as an engineer, or computer scientist, or graphic designer, you can basically jump between private sector employers to increase you income over time. But all of those degrees come with the same amount of debt, so is it any wonder that certain public sector roles have a shortage of workers? Who wants to go into tens of thousands of pounds of debt and give up 4 years of earnings to get a job that pays barely more than the average salary?
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Not really true though is it. Everyone in the private sectors salary is capped by what the local market is willing to pay for a particular role unless you are willing to go abroad.

Outside of a very limited number you would struggle to find engineers and scientists with a PhD earning a similar salary, to a salaried GP which is between £73k and £110k. Consultants which also do non NHS work are £105k to £140k basic and more if they have additional skills plus whatever they earn private.

Teachers I would say are more on par, with leading practitioners in subjects within schools able to earn up to £72k and more in London plus additional money for TLR (where they taken on extra responsibility) payments.

Paying for their degrees and not that of others therefore is not really a balanced way of going about things.

Nurses I do believe however are significantly underpaid and something does need to be done to address that. But rather than fudging it by paying for their university education, it would be better to pay them a higher salary.
 
meltonblue said:
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The more I read about this case, the more I think she has been put up to this by someone with a more significant interest in the issue. It is unlikely she can afford the fees as she is supposedly a single mum on £24k per year.

I reckon the school are behind this as they would likely have known about her circumstances. The lady's case / arguments are far too polished. Almost as if they have been put together by a media/PR manager. I also doubt she could afford the fees. The school her daughter attends is likely to be very wealthy as it is very expensive. The fees are around two to three times the cost of most standard private schools down here. In fact, the fees at her daughter's school are higher than those at a Highgate School, a prestigious school that gave us TS Eliot, Sir John Betjemen and errr....Phil Tuffnel. I know Highgate is not in Kent. I am simply making the point that the school her daughter attends will be wealthy and most likely providing the legal and PR support.

If the case is successful, you would have to suspect it will not be (after all, the council stated the state school adequately provided for her needs), I suspect we will see a huge uptick in applications for private schools from parents stating their children have "special education needs".
 
Manc in London said:
The more I read about this case, the more I think she has been put up to this by someone with a more significant interest in the issue. It is unlikely she can afford the fees as she is supposedly a single mum on £24k per year.

I reckon the school are behind this as they would likely have known about her circumstances. The lady's case / arguments are far too polished. Almost as if they have been put together by a media/PR manager. I also doubt she could afford the fees. The school her daughter attends is likely to be very wealthy as it is very expensive. The fees are around two to three times the cost of most standard private schools down here. In fact, the fees at her daughter's school are higher than those at a Highgate School, a prestigious school that gave us TS Eliot, Sir John Betjemen and errr....Phil Tuffnel. I know Highgate is not in Kent. I am simply making the point that the school her daughter attends will be wealthy and most likely providing the legal and PR support.

If the case is successful, you would have to suspect it will not be (after all, the council stated the state school adequately provided for her needs), I suspect we will see a huge uptick in applications for private schools from parents stating their children have "special education needs".
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I can’t imagine you’d see any uptick in applications as they would surely already pay to send their kids there if they want to (as VAT currently does not apply). If the council said the local state system could not meet her daughter’s needs they would have to pay her school fees so it’s no great surprise they would say that.

Also you have to think the parents who send their kids to these schools are higher earners - lawyers, judges, PR exec that sort of thing so finding someone to work on this for free I don’t imagine would be too hard.

The problem as I see it is it’s got all the hallmarks of messy legislation and it’s open to all sorts of challenges as a consequence.
 
metalblue said:
I can’t imagine you’d see any uptick in applications as they would surely already pay to send their kids there if they want to (as VAT currently does not apply). If the council said the local state system could not meet her daughter’s needs they would have to pay her school fees so it’s no great surprise they would say that.

Also you have to think the parents who send their kids to these schools are higher earners - lawyers, judges, PR exec that sort of thing so finding someone to work on this for free I don’t imagine would be too hard.

The problem as I see it is it’s got all the hallmarks of messy legislation and it’s open to all sorts of challenges as a consequence.
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It is wrong to assume parents of kids at private schools are wealthy. Ex grammars who went private, eg, have many parents scrimping and saving to give their kids a better education as they see it. Particularly true of Asian parents.
 
KS55 said:
It is wrong to assume parents of kids at private schools are wealthy. Ex grammars who went private, eg, have many parents scrimping and saving to give their kids a better education as they see it. Particularly true of Asian parents.
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Agreed. Many go without. By and large they aren’t on their bare bones but they aren’t rolling in cash.
 
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KS55 said:
It is wrong to assume parents of kids at private schools are wealthy. Ex grammars who went private, eg, have many parents scrimping and saving to give their kids a better education as they see it. Particularly true of Asian parents.
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I can tell you for a fact the majority of the parents of kids at most ( not all) private schools are not wealthy. I know I was one and saw it with my own eyes. It’s hard working people, who are making sacrifices and in a lot of cases going without to fund their kid’s education. Yes there are wealthy parents who turn up in Rolls Royce or a Lamborghini to pick up the kids each night, but they are very much in the minority.
 
PPT said:
I can tell you for a fact the majority of the parents of kids at most ( not all) private schools are not wealthy. I know I was one and saw it with my own eyes. It’s hard working people, who are making sacrifices and in a lot of cases going without to fund their kid’s education. Yes there are wealthy parents who turn up in Rolls Royce or a Lamborghini to pick up the kids each night, but they are very much in the minority.
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And millions of people scrimp and scrape by to just feed the family
 
PPT said:
Yes they do. I agree. But putting VAT on private school fees isn’t going to change that unfortunately.
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But this was the mantra of the Mail, Telegraph etc etc . I’d like the latest Volvo because of its safety features so my grandkids are safer on the road but the VAT is killing it for me , don’t think the taxpayers will subsidise it for me though .
 

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PPT said:
I can tell you for a fact the majority of the parents of kids at most ( not all) private schools are not wealthy. I know I was one and saw it with my own eyes. It’s hard working people, who are making sacrifices and in a lot of cases going without to fund their kid’s education. Yes there are wealthy parents who turn up in Rolls Royce or a Lamborghini to pick up the kids each night, but they are very much in the minority.
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This is just obviously not true.

Anecdotally you can look at the cars outside at pickup time.

Research is also available.

civitas.org.uk

Private schooling in Britain: a snapshot

Summary This briefing note provides a snap-shot of Britain’s independent schools, using data from the Independent Schools Council (ISC) annual census. The latest census (2022) shows that 544,316[1]…
civitas.org.uk civitas.org.uk

For the overwhelming majority of private school pupils, their parents are in the top 10 per cent income group.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
This is just obviously not true.

Anecdotally you can look at the cars outside at pickup time.

Research is also available.

civitas.org.uk

Private schooling in Britain: a snapshot

Summary This briefing note provides a snap-shot of Britain’s independent schools, using data from the Independent Schools Council (ISC) annual census. The latest census (2022) shows that 544,316[1]…
civitas.org.uk civitas.org.uk

For the overwhelming majority of private school pupils, their parents are in the top 10 per cent income group.
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Good report. But it does say that two-thirds of all private schools are in the South. I think its a tad different in this part of the world.
 
PPT said:
Good report. But it does say that two-thirds of all private schools are in the South. I think its a tad different in this part of the world.
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A tad different, maybe but still, these are the wealthiest parents in the North we're talking about. And it could be even skewed to the wealthiest here, given that fees demand you're in an even higher income percentile to afford them (and still afford a luxury 4x4 idling on the pavement, judging by the schools I pass by).

That isn't at all an argument per se for VAT on fees, but we shouldn't pretend any but a really small minority aren't wealthy by the standards of the population at large.
 
It was a huge open trap that the Tories walked right into, for one it proved who they really cared about (i.e the very rich) and two most people thought it was quite a fair policy
 
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