Villa v Maccabi Tel Aviv - away fans banned | MTA confirm they will refuse any allocation for safety reasons (p26)

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

See, I've always had huge sympathy with the cause of the Palestinian people. I think Israeli foreign policy is abhorrent and the Nethanyahu government is guilty of countless war crimes. I was even chuffed when Starmer recognised the state of Palestine. Absolutely the right thing to do and how can one claim Israel has a right to exist but Palestine does not?

However, I don't equate that to every single Israeli football fan not being allowed to step foot into my city because local members of our community can not control themselves. Would a percentage of Tel Aviv fans be knobheads, absolutely, just like the majority of European fan bases that come to VP looking for trouble. However, anyone even trying to pretend that the threat would be on the local community is utterly kidding themselves. 1000 Tel Aviv fans would be no match for the tens of thousands of young muslim lads that will gather from inner city brum and absolutely pick them off for fun. A few hundred ultras shouting shitty racist chants will not stand a chance & would be mince meat if not protected.

You saw what happens on the streets of Birmingham when groups with anti muslim sentiment threaten to turn up during last years riots, last year, you even had sky news and LBC reporters being chased down streets for having the audacity to turn up and report. I remember listening to reporters absolutely gobsmacked at what they had witnessed, which made me laugh, they have no idea what it's like to live within these parts.

As for it being nothing to do with being jewish. I dare anyone to walk around Witton, parts of Aston, Lozells, Alum Rock, Bordesley Green, Sparkbrook, Sparkhill (I could go on and on and on) with say a kippah. You wouldn't survive. And unfortunately that's what lies underneath the surface of this argument, anyone in denial doesn't live in it and doesn't experience it.

Well said. Especially on your last point.

 

[Chak19]

Fuck all to do with anti-semitism? Are you actually joking. We’ve just had a horrific anti semitic attack in Manchester. The police are majorly concerned with another attack happening at this game and wide spread racism.

To say it’s nothing to do with anti semitism is ridiculous. Your clearly burying your head in the sand.

If it wasn’t this team and it was another team from Isreal the same threats would be there.

“when a country have decided to go down a route of genocidal cuntishness” did they? Last time I checked it was the government that did that, not the people

Wide spread chant of "death to Arabs" don't bother you though, as for your last sentence tell that to the Russians who've all been banned.

 

[Blue and true]

Fuck all to do with anti-semitism? Are you actually joking. We’ve just had a horrific anti semitic attack in Manchester. The police are majorly concerned with another attack happening at this game and wide spread racism.

To say it’s nothing to do with anti semitism is ridiculous. Your clearly burying your head in the sand.

If it wasn’t this team and it was another team from Isreal the same threats would be there.

“when a country have decided to go down a route of genocidal cuntishness” did they? Last time I checked it was the government that did that, not the people

And who is in charge of that country? The people or the government? Russia were banned from European competition not because all Russians were complicit in the invasion of Ukraine, but because their government were. Didn't make the decision to ban them any less right.

Even if we decide to disregard that, this is an ultra-nationalist Israeli team that sing about the killing of innocent Arabs, you seem to blissfully ignoring that. Is that not Islamophobic? Or does prejudice only carry weight when you attach anti-Semitism to it?

I'm not burying my head in the sand; burying my head would be pretending the Israeli government's despicable actions over the last three years have had no detrimental affect on other Israeli organisations and institutions, including sports teams.

 

[Man-chester copperpot]

Legia warsaw fans were banned, Old firm matches have been without away fans multiple times, but keep believing it's just "anti semitic", I guess Frankfurt fans getting banned from Naples is "anti German" racism

Ignore my ignorance, but that is more about football hooligans?
From what i’m reading, Aston Villa supporters (or Villa’s firm) are not in contact with Maccaba’s firm for a meet up.

Let’s cut the bollocks.

This is all about a Jewish football team, with Jewish supporters going to a highly populated Muslim area.

Are their hooligans as bad as Roma?
Swinging belts, putting Liverpool fans in Coma’s and getting brain damage

The police have had the Zulu’s decend on Villa Park on numerous occasions without banning Birmingham fans

Let’s agree they should be banned okay, then every single club Villa are arranged to play in europe, we scroll through Youtube to see the fans of that club singing, their songs, behaviour every where they have played to see if they have passed the pissed up dickhead, cokehead, hooligan, racist, facist, far right, far left knobhead test

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Does feel like the whole thing has been handled pretty badly, not helped by the clumsy interventions of Starmer and Badenoch. They should have just gone ahead with it, but perhaps given Maccabi a reduced allocation based on what happened in Amsterdam, and then policed it to fuck to prevent any major trouble on the night. It's now become a far bigger political issue than it should have been.

I just hope no police officers get seriously injured on the back of these two clowns political points scoring.

 

[Chak19]

Ignore my ignorance, but that is more about football hooligans?
From what i’m reading, Aston Villa supporters (or Villa’s firm) are not in contact with Maccaba’s firm for a meet up.

Let’s cut the bollocks.

This is all about a Jewish football team, with Jewish supporters going to a highly populated Muslim area.

Are their hooligans as bad as Roma?
Swinging belts, putting Liverpool fans in Coma’s and getting brain damage

The police have had the Zulu’s decend on Villa Park on numerous occasions without banning Birmingham fans

Let’s agree they should be banned okay, then every single club Villa are arranged to play in europe, we scroll through Youtube to see the fans of that club singing and their behaviour every where they have played

It's about an Israeli team who's fans are renowed racists who regularly chant death to Arabs going to a highly populated Muslim area and of course West Midlands police don't want that, and they know what happened in Amsterdam with them a year ago when their behaviour led to violence in the city, but you can just ignore all of that and claim it's just about Jews if it helps you sleep at night.

 

[Mr Fraser]

what would happen to Muslims around singers hill and Solihull. Almost tempted to suggest let all macabbii fans come and let the locals give a welcome. But thinking quietly would it be best for reduced allocation and strict policing. Or maybe Israeli teams could compete in the appropriate geographical location

 

[malg]

Can we fuck this shite off to the politics thread. It's got fuck all to do with football.

 

[Man-chester copperpot]

It's about an Israeli team who's fans are renowed racists who regularly chant death to Arabs going to a highly populated Muslim area and of course West Midlands police don't want that, and they know what happened in Amsterdam with them a year ago when their behaviour led to violence in the city, but you can just ignore all of that and claim it's just about Jews if it helps you sleep at night.

They have played at Stoke and Chelsea in the past without burning both places down.

I think the best option is to bus them in & out and not to be in contact with the local muslim area. We agree on that surely.

Would you slightly agree Millwall or West Ham have support that are racist - Bans incoming from Villa park?

In fairness we’ve all seen the video’s of Israel supporters getting beaten by groups of men in Amsterdam, lads demanding to see passports (to see if they are Jewish) but for some reason they have not been uploaded on here. Weird. I think the press called it a Pogrom - Jew hunt with 900+ men involved on a whatsapp group attacking anyone Jewish.

3,000 dickhead football fans chanting death to arabs.
We’ve had hundreds of thousands of dickheads around the world chanting death to Jews/intifada.
Wankers on both sides lets not forget

I’m only saying this as my friend and his family are Jewish and just wanted to go Villa Park to watch the football.

It’s not an argument, i’m putting his point of view across.

End of the day, it’s not up to us, we can agree to disagree.

Think i’m going to concentrate on our club v Everton tomorrow now.

Come on City where everyone is welcome…..







…..apart from Rags

 

[mad4city]

I don’t agree at all. This isn’t about safety, it’s about perception. Many major club have a minority of fans who cause trouble, and police forces up and down the country know how to deal with them without banning entire groups of supporters.
The idea that Maccabi fans can’t be safely managed in Birmingham just doesn’t hold up. We’ve hosted fans from across Europe, including clubs with far worse reputations for violence, without resorting to blanket bans.
This decision is less about crowd control and more about politics. When Israeli teams or fans are treated differently under the pretext of “security,” it’s hard not to see another motive.
It's a fact that fans are going to turn up without tickets. This will make policing in the city centre harder, not safer.

Sorry, I'm not won over.
The authorities who made the decision do so from a safety point of view for every big game in Birmingham. They know the policing requirements beyter than you or I. They are the people with experience in the field.

Accusations of political motivation, purely because of who Macabbi are and where they come from, represent a grossly unfair leap. (Accusations of antisemitism also, although, I acknowledge you have not used that word yourself). Israel is as perfectly capable of producing thugs and football hooligans as any other nation. Lord knows, every other nation has its proven share of dickheads over the years too. Should Birmingham have to tiptoe around Israeli knobheads for fear of being labelled politically motivated in doing so or antisemitic? I think not.

For me, this is categorically about safety. In fact, I'd argue that should the decision be reversed, there can be no argumentbut that would be a political act (cf the PM's remarks and the pressure being brought by the Home Office).

PS: I do appreciate beong able to discuss this like adults Fair play on that score, Snape.

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

It is quite clear from the footage part way through the video, the Maccabi fans went on the rampage through the town brandishing pieces of wood, the police have to make the decision to ban Maccabi
The PM and Home Secretary are taking a big risk if they overturn the police decision

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

See, I've always had huge sympathy with the cause of the Palestinian people. I think Israeli foreign policy is abhorrent and the Nethanyahu government is guilty of countless war crimes. I was even chuffed when Starmer recognised the state of Palestine. Absolutely the right thing to do and how can one claim Israel has a right to exist but Palestine does not?

However, I don't equate that to every single Israeli football fan not being allowed to step foot into my city because local members of our community can not control themselves. Would a percentage of Tel Aviv fans be knobheads, absolutely, just like the majority of European fan bases that come to VP looking for trouble. However, anyone even trying to pretend that the threat would be on the local community is utterly kidding themselves. 1000 Tel Aviv fans would be no match for the tens of thousands of young muslim lads that will gather from inner city brum and absolutely pick them off for fun. A few hundred ultras shouting shitty racist chants will not stand a chance & would be mince meat if not protected.

You saw what happens on the streets of Birmingham when groups with anti muslim sentiment threaten to turn up during last years riots, last year, you even had sky news and LBC reporters being chased down streets for having the audacity to turn up and report. I remember listening to reporters absolutely gobsmacked at what they had witnessed, which made me laugh, they have no idea what it's like to live within these parts.

As for it being nothing to do with being jewish. I dare anyone to walk around Witton, parts of Aston, Lozells, Alum Rock, Bordesley Green, Sparkbrook, Sparkhill (I could go on and on and on) with say a kippah. You wouldn't survive. And unfortunately that's what lies underneath the surface of this argument, anyone in denial doesn't live in it and doesn't experience it.

A great post. There’s no need to take sides. It wouldn’t take much to start wide scale disturbance in some of those areas you mention. I don’t think the police decision was anti semitic. That said my experience of West Midlands police over many visits as a City fan is they are useless at controlling crowds. Nearly as bad as Merseyside Police.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

Can we fuck this shite off to the politics thread. It's got fuck all to do with football.

People are so tribal. It is clear that a section of the Macabbi support is anti-Arab and anti-Muslim and a section of the Muslim community is anti-Israel and anti-Semitic. Why are people in denial about this. The Aston area is gangland and dodgy at the best of times. The police in Brum have a reputation for being useless on occasions. Sounds like a high risk to me.

 

[bluejon]

Ignore my ignorance, but that is more about football hooligans?
From what i’m reading, Aston Villa supporters (or Villa’s firm) are not in contact with Maccaba’s firm for a meet up.

Let’s cut the bollocks.

This is all about a Jewish football team, with Jewish supporters going to a highly populated Muslim area.

Are their hooligans as bad as Roma?
Swinging belts, putting Liverpool fans in Coma’s and getting brain damage

The police have had the Zulu’s decend on Villa Park on numerous occasions without banning Birmingham fans

Let’s agree they should be banned okay, then every single club Villa are arranged to play in europe, we scroll through Youtube to see the fans of that club singing, their songs, behaviour every where they have played to see if they have passed the pissed up dickhead, cokehead, hooligan, racist, facist, far right, far left knobhead test

Rangers also acted like a bunch of cunts and manchester banned them. Pretty much the same story, is it not?

 

[Man-chester copperpot]

Rangers also acted like a bunch of cunts and manchester banned them. Pretty much the same story, is it not?

Whats that got to do with the price of fish?

I don’t remember Catholic mp’s signing petition’s to ban Rangers fans from coming to Manchester, or the good people of Manchester giving sermons that they will not give any mercy to Protestants that come into the city, or Greater Manchester police saying they cannot guarantee the safety of Scottish citizens in our great city.

Not really the same is it!

Ps, over 200,000 Rangers fans came to Manchester.
Villa Park were expecting around 1,500 Maccaba fans.

 

[Shirley]

Ignore my ignorance, but that is more about football hooligans?
From what i’m reading, Aston Villa supporters (or Villa’s firm) are not in contact with Maccaba’s firm for a meet up.

Let’s cut the bollocks.

This is all about a Jewish football team, with Jewish supporters going to a highly populated Muslim area.

Are their hooligans as bad as Roma?
Swinging belts, putting Liverpool fans in Coma’s and getting brain damage

The police have had the Zulu’s decend on Villa Park on numerous occasions without banning Birmingham fans

Let’s agree they should be banned okay, then every single club Villa are arranged to play in europe, we scroll through Youtube to see the fans of that club singing, their songs, behaviour every where they have played to see if they have passed the pissed up dickhead, cokehead, hooligan, racist, facist, far right, far left knobhead test

If I remember correctly the Roma fan incident putting the Liverpool fan in a come came just after the City team bus attack in Liverpool which I believe Roma fans were expecting similar so came prepared, imo.

 

[Man-chester copperpot]

If I remember correctly the Roma fan incident putting the Liverpool fan in a come came just after the City team bus attack in Liverpool which I believe Roma fans were expecting similar so came prepared, imo.

Fair enough. That maybe correct.
There’s also a chance that the Israeli’s were put in the same situation in Amsterdam and were prepared for a response from the constant world wide anti-israel marches/protests

Fuck me.
I’m non religious but you would think i’m some kind of Rabbi after all these posts

 

[urban genie]

The only people who. made it political were our coward of a PM, his lackies in cabinet and our right wing media, who are all Pro-Israeli.

MTA coming would have been a security risk in itself as they have history of violence and would have stirred trouble, add to. that our new "plastic patriots" would have use it as an excuse to turn up to stand with them.
Also some local scrotes would have been on hand to want a scrap due to the percieved threat to communities.
Any police force would be correct to ban them.

A safety issue as happens often with away fans has been taken, and it should end there.

Starmer has aligned himself with Yaxley-lennon here and brought shame upon. his standing as PM and leader of labour, cunts like Philipson, reed and nandy can fuck off too as can john sopel.

 

[urban genie]

Fair enough. That maybe correct.
There’s also a chance that the Israeli’s were put in the same situation in Amsterdam and were prepared for a response from the constant world wide anti-israel marches/protests

Fuck me.
I’m non religious but you would think i’m some kind of Rabbi after all these posts

in 2014 in rhe Tel Aviv derby they stormed the pitch and attacked players and Haifia fans, considered the darkest day in. Israeli football
They abuse black and arab players in their own team
During the Balfour protests they set upon anti-netanyahu protesters with knives, bats and broken bottles
They are considered the 2nd most biggoted fans in Israel after Beitar, a fanbase that would make liegia warsaw, LKV Lodź, lazio and milwall fans look placid


They are thugs and racist scumbags as there are in many clubs in europe and many get banned, this is no different and shpuld never have been used as a political weapon.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Always find it difficult to understand why Israel is part of Europe.