Villa Vs City Post Match Discussion Thread

[BobKowalski]

Take City's form since the Hull game and we're on an upward curve.

That's the way I've seen the performances too ... getting better each week. When you look at how insipid the rags and Chelsea look with their new managers in charge ... I dunno I think we're very very lucky to have the players/manager we have. When we win the title this season it will have been in the most competitive Premier League since it's inception IMO.

I assume by 'the most competitive' you mean all teams are trying to reach the standards of say Hull City on a good day in which case you are spot on.

I know you are trying to set the stage for your play 'Pellegrini and the Greatest PL Triumph the World has ever Seen!' but currently its more farce than sweeping epic of valour and derring do. 6 games and 10 points with Southampton above us is not exactly the stuff of legends.

 

[Marvin]

Villa deserved the win. This "flukey" bullshit on here is absolute nonsense,bury your heads in the sand all you want but there will be plenty more Cardiff and Villa results to come. The next 6 games will tell us all we need to know about the current squad of players but I can see us being as much as 10-12 pts off the pace come early December, if that's the case then it's curtains in the league for us.

They had 4 shots on target. 1 goal was offside.

Look at the balance of possession.<br /><br />-- Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:30 pm --<br /><br />

It's called balance and just because yesterday some people would have taken 2-1 and sured up the game, which doesn't mean we'd have given Villa any initiative, in fact I'd suggest the opposite.

I remember Damocles telling me quite early on in the Mancini days that football is a results business and not about entertainment, and it is exactly that. Good football is only good football if you win, because if you lose all that pretty build-up play becomes an issue because it hasn't been turned into enough goals. Similarly it shows that defensively we weren't good enough, so ultimately yesterday wasn't a good performance. It had promising play, and some impressive attacking passing, movement and build-up play, but it ultimately rewarded in nada.

You think we'll win the league. Fair enough, but we won't win the league if our very experienced manager doesn't realise that to win trophies sometimes no matter how good you think our attacking has been we need to be pragmatic and sure everything up and continue to control the game with some extra defensive cover there for solidity, to ensure you get the 3 points so that you can challenge for the title.

If that was Wigan in the cup-final many more people would say shut up shop and take the 2-1 lead and see if you can catch them for the third. People become desensitised so early in the season because there's so many games left. It shouldn't change what you do though.

Like I said last night if we'd put our attacking play to full use and be 2/3/4-0 up this discussion wouldn't be here as we wouldn't have needed to sure up. You have to adapt to the game scenario and what the opposition do.

I've no doubt Pellegrini is a top manager and our attacking play is much nicer under him than Mancini. However he needs to learn quickly from these experiences and really needs to sort out the defence and either realise that we can't play (like we couldn't 3-5-2) so openly at the back, or he has to get them to master it. He's not got much time as we can't afford to drop many more points.

The Bayern game is like the derby, the players will be up for it and it is an entirely different kettle of fish to Everton, West Ham and Chelsea, which are games which will really show if Pelle is getting the hang of this.

The fact remains no matter how many arguments you put forward for why he should be more pragmatic, you can take it to the bank right now that he won't be. There's a reason why he was given the job and for example, Benitez wasn't. It's going to be a harem scarem ride at times and sure, it might not work. Right now though it's too early to tell for me and I'm more than happy to go on this ride after last season's anaemic showing.

Well in that case it better work for him because whether you like or not he'll come under more pressure quicker than Mancini did because he's meant to be a significant upgrade. I have the feeling he's going to give everything to try and win our CL group, and take us fighting for 3rd/4th this season because he's going to rely on our players getting this gung-ho way and having a great league run at the end of the season and get us far in the CL so that we end the season in an optimistic mood.

Ultimately though every position we finish lower in the league the bar in the CL pretty much raises up to the next round. To win the league however you need to be able to hold onto leads against mediocre sides away from home, whether you have 1, 2 or 4 up front.

and one your penultimate point, if it doesn't work people are going to get on his back a lot quicker than you or me would like because of what happened last May. Last season was very poor but in reality the barometer he has to go up against isn't solely last season, it's Mancini's reign as a whole. That on a CL front is easy but on a league and FA Cup front isn't(even League Cup semis). I don't think a lot of City fans will take 3rd and Last 16 this season, which if we don't win on wednesday is quite likely as we could easily be handed a Barca or Real in the Last 16, especially if some of our other English teams happen to win their group and we get left with 4 potential Group Winners.

It's convenient that Arsenal have started playing their best football in 4 years when Wenger knows they have to get results against Napoli and Dortmund. Come January they'll fall off again because he'll have achieved what the board need him to. United are sods but would you rather end up in Spain or Donetsk?

In reality wednesday is hugely important because if Pelle isn't going to be pragmatic and is going to risk league form in the hope we turn the Premier League into La Liga and people roll over whenever they see a good player then he has to really win the group or his season is going to be risked on winning a Last 16 tie as an underdog.

If we do well in the CL group, we can start to focus on the Premiership.

If it looks like we can qualify from the Group it will have a carry-over effect in the Premiership. The link was there last season too, only it was a negative

 

[BobKowalski]

Villa deserved the win. This "flukey" bullshit on here is absolute nonsense,bury your heads in the sand all you want but there will be plenty more Cardiff and Villa results to come. The next 6 games will tell us all we need to know about the current squad of players but I can see us being as much as 10-12 pts off the pace come early December, if that's the case then it's curtains in the league for us.

They had 4 shots on target. 1 goal was offside.

Look at the balance of possession.

Possession is good. If it means you control the game. If you control the game you restrict the opposition's ability to score by denying them the chance to score. They scored 3 and came back twice from being a goal down to win the game. That is not the hallmark of a team controlling the game. Possession with out control is an exercise in futility.

 

[OB1]

Yep ... and yesterday's result wasn't a problem of the balance between attack and defence being wrong IMO. Anyway ... I'd now like to beat Bayern just to wash yesterday completely from my system ... :)

I agree that yesterday's problem was not about a lack of balance or about needing to go 4-5-1. None of that had anything to do with the officials allowing an offiside goal to stand from a rare Villa attack or Nasty committing a needless foul. Tactics, team selection and substitutions were not to blame for yesterday's defeat. Obviously, if any of those things had been different, the game would in some way have unfolded in a different way but I think that would be more of a philosophical debate!

I disagree. If we kept the pressure we would've scored a third and killed it. Instead, we we gave them a breather and they made every kick counts. You cant expose your CBs and expect them not to make mistakes. We lost edge in the midfield (first line of defense) by removing Nasri. Aside from an offside goal, the game was going so well for us until the substitutions and tactics change.

I don't think Pellegrini wanted his team to give Villa any sort of breather: IMO, he brought Navas on to try and strike a killer blow. After Nasri left, most of the play remained in the Villa half.

We'll just have to disagree.

 

[Kevindxb]

I agree that yesterday's problem was not about a lack of balance or about needing to go 4-5-1. None of that had anything to do with the officials allowing an offiside goal to stand from a rare Villa attack or Nasty committing a needless foul. Tactics, team selection and substitutions were not to blame for yesterday's defeat. Obviously, if any of those things had been different, the game would in some way have unfolded in a different way but I think that would be more of a philosophical debate!

I disagree. If we kept the pressure we would've scored a third and killed it. Instead, we we gave them a breather and they made every kick counts. You cant expose your CBs and expect them not to make mistakes. We lost edge in the midfield (first line of defense) by removing Nasri. Aside from an offside goal, the game was going so well for us until the substitutions and tactics change.

I don't think Pellegrini wanted his team to give Villa any sort of breather: IMO, he brought Navas on to try and strike a killer blow. After Nasri left, most of the play remained in the Villa half.

We'll just have to disagree.

He didn't. He's mucked up the tactics which allowed them the breather. changed too much too quick.

 

[johnbmcr]

its the result that counts we lost we shouldn't have how many corners do we have to have to score a gaol? surely we need to get some basic footballing practice going between games to improve our set pieces and defending we need a response and that means some should be dropped from a great height

its not the first time we have been poor away and lost games when we should be cruising to victory not wishful thinking just an accurate analysis of what resources we have @ our disposal and what other teams in comparison have its embarrassing to think we cannot close a game down simply not good enough

 

[cookster]

Villa deserved the win. This "flukey" bullshit on here is absolute nonsense,bury your heads in the sand all you want but there will be plenty more Cardiff and Villa results to come. The next 6 games will tell us all we need to know about the current squad of players but I can see us being as much as 10-12 pts off the pace come early December, if that's the case then it's curtains in the league for us.

Give over. On what metric are you coming to the conclusion that 'Villa deserved to win' yesterday? I know they scored 3 goals and we scored 2, but I have seriously only seen one other game in my entire City watching life that was like this, which was a game at home against Bolton a few years ago when we battered them all game and they snatched it with a 90th minute penalty conceded by Dunne. On a different day, we'd have scored a bag full yesterday. Villa did not deserve to win. In fact, the team, manager and wank stain supporters probably can't believe their fucking luck.

I agree with your point about the next 6 games, but if we are 10 points off the pace by Christmas, it will probably be to Arsenal or Spurs, both of whom I'd expect to be 'reeled in' after Christmas.

Why are you expecting Arsenal to be "reeled in". They have a much better record than us over the last 20 premier league games.

Blinkers off a realist would say Arse are improving while we have been declining for over a season now.

 

[adrian99]

its the result that counts we lost we shouldn't have how many corners do we have to have to score a gaol? surely we need to get some basic footballing practice going between games to improve our set pieces and defending we need a response and that means some should be dropped from a great height

its not the first time we have been poor away and lost games when we should be cruising to victory not wishful thinking just an accurate analysis of what resources we have @ our disposal and what other teams in comparison have its embarrassing to think we cannot close a game down simply not good enough

I watched the game, our football was fantastic, one offside goal, a great free kick and freak 3rd don't change that. So we are playing great football and a result goes against us, there's not too much to fix. We will win the league by a good margin, only spurs are any real threat.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

We could only be blamed for their last goal, Kompany and Nasty got caught out. We need to start picking up points away from home.

It happens. I've slept on it and don't feel half as bad as I did yesterday. We definitely need to start getting results to go with performances away from home ... but I don't see the problem as being terminal because yesterday wasn't a typical away performance. We didn't struggle to create, we weren't limp and slow passing the ball around in front of the opposition. We played with purpose, created chances, scored two, etc. It's hard to even fault Vinny/Nasty. Just how good were they against the rags ? I think it's super harsh when normally very reliable players have a bad day at the office, to start castigating them for it.

Even the substitution which in the heat of the post match fury I felt Pellegrini had gotten wrong, was in fact spot on. We were winning and creating more than Villa ... bringing Nasri off was the sensible thing to do with Bayern in mid week.

On the tactical discussion from last night ... about switching to 451 when we took the lead ... no thanks. I don't ever want City to be a play the percentages pragmatic team like that. It's fucking boring and if it means we win a few trophies less because we don't shut up shop every time we take the lead ... well I'm really not bothered.

Anyway .... Forza Pellegrini. Deserves far more respect than he's afforded by the obsessed with Mancini few.

Your last line is laughable as you showed the same distinct lack of respect towards our previous manager.

Your post also screams off "let's keep running at the brick wall despite the fact in this game it clearly isn't working", as the 2 up front and keep attacking relentlessly theory wasn't yesterday as we'd only managed to score 2 and like United didn't have a plethora of clear-cut chances, as proved by the fact we had less than 50% of our shots that hit the target.

I would rather we realise what a top club is and be pragmatic when it calls for it and we have the opportunity to blitz 4 or 5 and we're playing well enough to get a couple of goals up and relax a bit more then we can do so.

It's called balance and just because yesterday some people would have taken 2-1 and sured up the game, which doesn't mean we'd have given Villa any initiative, in fact I'd suggest the opposite.

I remember Damocles telling me quite early on in the Mancini days that football is a results business and not about entertainment, and it is exactly that. Good football is only good football if you win, because if you lose all that pretty build-up play becomes an issue because it hasn't been turned into enough goals. Similarly it shows that defensively we weren't good enough, so ultimately yesterday wasn't a good performance. It had promising play, and some impressive attacking passing, movement and build-up play, but it ultimately rewarded in nada.

You think we'll win the league. Fair enough, but we won't win the league if our very experienced manager doesn't realise that to win trophies sometimes no matter how good you think our attacking has been we need to be pragmatic and sure everything up and continue to control the game with some extra defensive cover there for solidity, to ensure you get the 3 points so that you can challenge for the title.

If that was Wigan in the cup-final many more people would say shut up shop and take the 2-1 lead and see if you can catch them for the third. People become desensitised so early in the season because there's so many games left. It shouldn't change what you do though.

Like I said last night if we'd put our attacking play to full use and be 2/3/4-0 up this discussion wouldn't be here as we wouldn't have needed to sure up. You have to adapt to the game scenario and what the opposition do.

I've no doubt Pellegrini is a top manager and our attacking play is much nicer under him than Mancini. However he needs to learn quickly from these experiences and really needs to sort out the defence and either realise that we can't play (like we couldn't 3-5-2) so openly at the back, or he has to get them to master it. He's not got much time as we can't afford to drop many more points.

The Bayern game is like the derby, the players will be up for it and it is an entirely different kettle of fish to Everton, West Ham and Chelsea, which are games which will really show if Pelle is getting the hang of this.

Saved me a post. Beautifully put. I advocated the removal of Mancini and was happy enough to see Pellegrini installed, but if we don't stop capitulating away from home, then the title race will be over for us by Christmas. I hope Billy's right and we do go on to win it, but at the moment I'm more concerned about a top 4 finish

 

[adrian99]

its the result that counts we lost we shouldn't have how many corners do we have to have to score a gaol? surely we need to get some basic footballing practice going between games to improve our set pieces and defending we need a response and that means some should be dropped from a great height

its not the first time we have been poor away and lost games when we should be cruising to victory not wishful thinking just an accurate analysis of what resources we have @ our disposal and what other teams in comparison have its embarrassing to think we cannot close a game down simply not good enough

I watched the game, our football was fantastic, one offside goal, a great free kick and freak 3rd don't change that. So we are playing great football and a result goes against us, there's not too much to fix. We will win the league by a good margin, only spurs are any real threat.