Were we this bad last time Kompany was out?

Blue Til Death said:
We have reached the stage now where 3 points is not good enough, those days are thankfully gone. We need to be dominating teams and we need to have the same level of committment for every game. We have the best squad of players without doubt, the acid test will be how we perform against the top 6 teams, as it stands we are not playing well enough to beat them.
On the plus side I think we will be ok once Pell gets his system running smoothly and the team carry out his instructions instictively rather than having to look to the players beside and in front to check their positioning.
It will come and I honestly believe we will win the PL this season.

This is what other teams - MANUre, CFC, The Arse and The Dippers used to do when winning the title. I'll settle for just a good team performance in the first place. We seem not to have had one of these since I don't know when? In fact, it seems to be a toss up as to whether we bet a NUFC show or a Cardiff/Hull show. Oh, and three points, however we play!
 
I think we were always bad when Kompany is out. Lescott should be leading the defence but he is so poor at doing this when Kompany isnt there. Not vocal enough for all of his experience. Even this season he has looked shaky and poor again. I dont know whats wrong with him maybe its the pressure but there is a reason why we took on a new centre half as Lescott lacks that leadership and drive when Kompany is out. A shame as I like Lescott but at the moment he isnt doing it. I wouldnt be shocked to see him dropped in the next game to be honest.
 
BluessinceHydeRoad said:
It is an interesting question. Last season Vinnie had two main periods of injury. The first followed the injury which forced him to go off after 20 minutes of the derby in December. The second followed his injury during the 3rd round cup tie at Stoke. After the derby he missed 2 league matches: after Stoke he missed 7 matches (5 in the Pl and 2 in the cup). The bald statistics are that we won 5 of the 9, drew 2 and lost 2. We lost the derby, in which we were 1-0 down when he went off, but we beat Stoke 1-0 when it had been 0-0 when Vinnie went off. Perhaps significant is that after the derby we won at Reading without him but lost at Sunderland, both matches we might have put down as likely victories. After Stoke we went on a nasty little run, taking only 2 points from 9 – draws at QPR (a match we certainly expected to win, though the 0-0 scoreline suggests the attack was the problem rather than defence) and at home to Liverpool (where the meanest defence in the league conceded 2 of only 15 goals let in at home. Half of these were conceded while Vinnie was NOT on the field!) and a defeat at Southampton (3-1 – Vinnie was NOT on the field for 10 of the 19 goals we let in away). The other 4 games without him saw us not concede a single goal, and this included the home win against Chelsea and the win at Villa. It also included comfortable home wins in the cup to Leeds and Barnsley. Ironically, he came back to lose to Everton! It has to be said that he was ever present in the CL and that he played in the cup final.

So, it was certainly awkward last season without the captain, but many of the performances in which we seem to have missed him least (eg Chelsea) saw Nastasic paired with Kolo rather than Lescott, which is interesting. Most of City's “horror shows” in the PL were without Kompany, but in Europe he made little positive difference – he played in the matches with Ajax, in which we conceded all 5 goals (I think?) from set pieces to possibly the smallest team in the group. And we lost the cup final to a straight forward near post corner.

Good post!

It's made worse at the moment because we don't have Kolo.

Garcia and Lescott was bad, Lescott and Nasty was better but Lescott playing on the right of centre when he can't kick the ball with his right foot wasn't ideal.

Kompany is massive for us as we all know, but hopefully a right sided, experienced CB like Demichelis should mean that he isn't missed as much when he's out in the future.
 
BluessinceHydeRoad said:
It is an interesting question. Last season Vinnie had two main periods of injury. The first followed the injury which forced him to go off after 20 minutes of the derby in December. The second followed his injury during the 3rd round cup tie at Stoke. After the derby he missed 2 league matches: after Stoke he missed 7 matches (5 in the Pl and 2 in the cup). The bald statistics are that we won 5 of the 9, drew 2 and lost 2. We lost the derby, in which we were 1-0 down when he went off, but we beat Stoke 1-0 when it had been 0-0 when Vinnie went off. Perhaps significant is that after the derby we won at Reading without him but lost at Sunderland, both matches we might have put down as likely victories. After Stoke we went on a nasty little run, taking only 2 points from 9 – draws at QPR (a match we certainly expected to win, though the 0-0 scoreline suggests the attack was the problem rather than defence) and at home to Liverpool (where the meanest defence in the league conceded 2 of only 15 goals let in at home. Half of these were conceded while Vinnie was NOT on the field!) and a defeat at Southampton (3-1 – Vinnie was NOT on the field for 10 of the 19 goals we let in away). The other 4 games without him saw us not concede a single goal, and this included the home win against Chelsea and the win at Villa. It also included comfortable home wins in the cup to Leeds and Barnsley. Ironically, he came back to lose to Everton! It has to be said that he was ever present in the CL and that he played in the cup final.

So, it was certainly awkward last season without the captain, but many of the performances in which we seem to have missed him least (eg Chelsea) saw Nastasic paired with Kolo rather than Lescott, which is interesting. Most of City's “horror shows” in the PL were without Kompany, but in Europe he made little positive difference – he played in the matches with Ajax, in which we conceded all 5 goals (I think?) from set pieces to possibly the smallest team in the group. And we lost the cup final to a straight forward near post corner.

This assessment is far too nuanced and lacking in preconceptions and bias. Please just answer 'yes' or 'no' in future.

On a related note, I can't stand those film reviews where they talk in detail about the film but don't rate it out of 4 stars - how am I supposed to know if it's any good or not?
 
We have never been good defensively. Our record was good (the best in the league). But a large portion of that often was our ability to hold on to the ball for long periods, in most games. Against teams who deny us that possession, we become frail. We should be a better early pressure team. If we are not, we will always be frail when counter attacked.

It is not any particular player or players: Kompany is way better than any other of our defenders, yet we are often still frail defensively, even when he is present. Barry, De Jong nor anyone else could do much to reduce that (sure Barry conceeded some fouls to stop the tide and De Jong put in a few crucnhing tackles here and there). But whether our defense was frail or not, was often a function of our posession. We are great defensively when we control possession for long period, deny the opposition the ball often, and defend then score. These are our best defensive qualities.

Contrary to popular belief, we are a team who for the most part needs to spot defend. I.e. Our defenders (especially in the league) will spend a greater portion of their time supporting possession, and initiating attacks, rather than defending.

This is why I have for years cried for a ball playing CD: It is why I wanted Luiz, wanted Vertonghen, still want Filipo Luis, and wanted Boateng to stay. Sure being a great defender is good, but for a team that will be pinning the opposition back as its primary form of defending, a good defender with great possession skills is way more important. Luckily for us, Kompany possesses both. Nastasic is good enough with both, and togeher we may keep up both possession (and by default a strong defense.)

We want a stronger defense? Possess the ball better, attack with better ball possession and chance creation, and we will!
 
team vs stoke...

-------------------------------------------hart-------------------------------
zabs--------------demi-----------------------nasty----------------------kolarov
navas-------------milner------------yaya------------fernadinho---------silva
---------------------------------------negredo----------------------------------------

play 5 in midfield, make sure we don't concede, we have enough attacking to score.

plus we have aguero,dzeko and jovetic to come on if we're chasing it.
 
Blue Til Death said:
We have reached the stage now where 3 points is not good enough, those days are thankfully gone. We need to be dominating teams and we need to have the same level of committment for every game. We have the best squad of players without doubt, the acid test will be how we perform against the top 6 teams, as it stands we are not playing well enough to beat them.
On the plus side I think we will be ok once Pell gets his system running smoothly and the team carry out his instructions instictively rather than having to look to the players beside and in front to check their positioning.
It will come and I honestly believe we will win the PL this season.


Every top team besides Barça aren't dominating every game. PSG also has a new manager and added more top talent and struggled as well, Real haven't looked like world beaters and were lucky to escape Betis Bayern drew etc etc. It is ok to just get the 3 points go home and try to work it out for next time. United scrapped by a few games last year. It's unrealistic to dominate or play beautiful every game and win, a win will always be a win.
 
We had Kolo who didn't do much wrong when called upon.
He slotted in and everyone knew the system.
Things have changed and it may indeed take time, time we don't have
by Pellegrinis own admission.
I don't like our over reliance on V.K., hopefully Demichelis can do a job for us.
 
shows how good Kolo actually was for us, he improved quite a lot towards the end of the season, and has the experience from his days at Arsenal to draw on, Lescott is lost without Vinny, I hope Vinny goes the rest of the season without any injuries now.
 
Why on earth did we let Kolo leave on a bloody free FFS? And then spend money on the new bloke whose name I can't attempt to spell. Bizarre.
 

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