West Ham (A) - EFL Cup R4 - Post-Match Thread

[ancoats]

First time we've been to the London Stadium on the coach usually drive and stay over, the coach park is over a mile away from the ground didn't get back to Denton until 3.30am

great stuff
you and the rest of the 5000 blues was loud all night and did us proud

 

[eastmanc]

I'm convinced of his quality and could see it when I saw him in the youth cup. I think he will make it with us. You can see the balance and control, and there was one lovely moment where he ran with the ball and fed Gundo in behind who should have scored.

Like all players coming through, there's a massive gulf in quality to bridge between EDS and first team. Foden took 3 years to really bridge it. Palmer I expect the same. I'm impressed with the way that he's being assimilated and hope we don't get the exact same as we had with Foden, everyone clamouring for more game time when he isn't ready. In fact I've just thought of something: whilst dropping out of the League Cup eases the fixture list, it reduces the opportunities for these kids to play.

I thought he did really well last night against a good West Ham team. I thought he found space well at times on the half turn and his control and touch were first class.

 

[BringBackSwales]

Shit happens.
I still haven't got over Sunderland scoring a last minute winner against us on (I think it was) New Year's Day 2012 after being played of the park for 90 mins.
I found that defeat especially traumatic for some reason.

Martin Tyler didn’t

 

[eastmanc]

There's definitely an argument (one that I subscribe to) that we play our best stuff without a striker, big PL games and CL games at full strength we have performed much better without one.

Games like this where we are disjointed because we have players coming in from the sidelines, youth team or back from Injury, that's where you need that strikers instinct.

We looked very flat but there's quality in all the attacking positions to provide the odd quality ball and a bit of movement and a decent finish would have been all required to win last night in normal time. Basically they bail you out when you're not playing well.

Away games where we are going to heavily rotate will be completely different to last season as the fans get behind a packed defence more and more as the game goes on.

Imo we should have got Ings or Daka they wouldn't have minded not being first choice.

I thought we should have got Daka as well, he’s a good player.

 

[mcfcsamm]

Heard the “All the way to Kiev” chant a lot last night… awful, pointless chant that needs to stop

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Better off out of those piddly cups anyway.
Only a distraction.

 

[eastmanc]

The West Ham fans were great as usual. Drinking with them at Hackney Wick beforehand and later in the hotel. They are very similar to our fanbase.

West Ham fans have always been good with City, example of that was after we got relegated at Upton Park in 1987.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

Why the benefit of doubt for Gundo. Apart from those 3 months when he scored a few tap-ins last season, he’s been rubbish for city. And pep’s penchant of playing him in big CL matches is the single reason we haven’t won the trophy yet. Every cl exit so far, be it tottenham, Liverpool, lyon or Chelsea, he’s been at the heart of it and it boils down to an inept performance in midfield by gundogun. If Fernandinho or even rodri had played in the final alongside Bernardo, we would have beaten Chelsea and won the CL.

nonsense

 

[Harvster]

Martin Tyler didn’t

Jiiiiiiiiiii

 

[Harvster]

First time we've been to the London Stadium on the coach usually drive and stay over, the coach park is over a mile away from the ground didn't get back to Denton until 3.30am

Early night that, we got back to Cheadle Hulme at 4. Given your previous comment about the Lost Boys (great film) reckon we were on the same coach. Think the latest score at one time was Lost 2 - Clink 1.

Quite a long walk but not exactly difficult - exit ground, turn right, hit main road, turn left

 

[kaz7]

Why the benefit of doubt for Gundo. Apart from those 3 months when he scored a few tap-ins last season, he’s been rubbish for city. And pep’s penchant of playing him in big CL matches is the single reason we haven’t won the trophy yet. Every cl exit so far, be it tottenham, Liverpool, lyon or Chelsea, he’s been at the heart of it and it boils down to an inept performance in midfield by gundogun. If Fernandinho or even rodri had played in the final alongside Bernardo, we would have beaten Chelsea and won the CL.

Lol, back in the real world .

 

[Fat Jim]

either that or he has got his big contract now.

nah man hes not like that......

is he?

 

[kaz7]

either that or he has got his big contract now.

You have such a low opinion of kev i see

 

[OB1]

I'll never call the Etihad ever again after last night - absolutely horrendous ground to get to/from and appalling view. It won't be at the top of my list of grounds to go back to!

I've been to most of our games there and it is reasonably convenient for us (on a good day) to get to. The queuin before the game was bad last night and getting away is always a pain. The view is OK but you can be a long way from the action, as we were last night. It wasn't designed as a football ground; whereas some thought went into the construction of the Etiahd and its ultimate use.

 

[mccity]

It's because of performances like this in the league cup - that we should be demonstrating at the next home game and demanding a change of manager - i believe conte is available

I'll give you a B- for effort.

 

[tizzerp]

Managed to take my son to his first away game last night. I think he has tended to believe the hype about City fans not being all that special as regards getting behind the team, singing and generally being proper supporters.Doesn't help that our season tickets are in the family stand.
Needless to say, his perception has changed, he was buzzing after last night, the only downside being that we won't get chance of a quarter final away tie to go to.
Great turn out by West Ham as well for a "meaningless"competition that everyone wants to scrap.

 

[youngbob]

Why the benefit of doubt for Gundo. Apart from those 3 months when he scored a few tap-ins last season, he’s been rubbish for city. And pep’s penchant of playing him in big CL matches is the single reason we haven’t won the trophy yet. Every cl exit so far, be it tottenham, Liverpool, lyon or Chelsea, he’s been at the heart of it and it boils down to an inept performance in midfield by gundogun. If Fernandinho or even rodri had played in the final alongside Bernardo, we would have beaten Chelsea and won the CL.

You what, mate? Have we travelled back to the 19-20 season?

I appreciate Gundogan's scoring form last season might have been caused by a change of position that enabled a bit of a purple patch for him, but he's been here five years now and still consistently starts in big games. There must be a reason for that. Pep doesn't suffer fools and he clearly trusts Gundogan, so the idea that he's been "rubbish" is really extreme. Pep's had no issue dropping club legends (or selling them), he's had no issue leaving players out for weeks when he deems that they're not doing well enough. I can't recall Gundogan ever going through a phase where he was benched for a long stretch despite being fit and available. He was instrumental in the 18/19 run-in and once again in our title-win last season, while the rest of his City career he's been a decent, professional option to fill in whenever Silva or Fernandinho haven't been available.

I'm actually a bigger fan of Gundogan than most people and have often seen real value in him where others haven't, but even if you were being really critical I think the worst you could accuse him of is not being as effective as David Silva in that #8 role and maybe being a little slow to accelerate. But we know now (given how good they've both been for ages now) that the Rodri-Gundogan double pivot was suffering from more systemic issues in 2019 and had little to do with them both as individuals. Rodri was getting used to his new position while dealing with a makeshift defence behind him (remember that we had to play Fernandinho at CB alongside Otamendi on far too many occasions), while Gundogan was in and out of the side with David Silva on his last legs. It's something Pep needed to sort out by fixing other areas of the team and that's exactly what he did.

As for Gundogan being at the heart of our Champions League exits... Christ, that's a massive stretch. He wasn't even involved in the Monaco games, so scratch those off the list. Liverpool - I don't think it's Gundogan's fault that Pep started him on the right-wing and that our defence shat itself in sight of the Kop, nor the fact that we had two perfectly legitimate goals disallowed for offside over the course of the tie. Spurs - Aguero missed a penalty in the first leg and VAR screwed us over in the second leg. Lyon - I seem to remember it was Raheem who skied it from 4 yards instead of tapping in for 2-2. And I'm pretty sure it was the random inclusion of Sterling in the final last year that disrupted the balance of the team overall, not Gundogan, who had been there all season.

 

[frothy]

Early night that, we got back to Cheadle Hulme at 4. Given your previous comment about the Lost Boys (great film) reckon we were on the same coach. Think the latest score at one time was Lost 2 - Clink 1.

Quite a long walk but not exactly difficult - exit ground, turn right, hit main road, turn left

It wasn't lost boys, it was 2 elderly people, so not as easy for them, (que the Ageist young uns on here saying if there old shouldnt be supporting City any more)

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

Wasn't Paul Lake more of a 8 than a forward? Seen alot of people compared Palmer with Mahrez and see him as his successor in when Mahrez's contract ends.

Paul Lake was a whatever he wanted to be, he was that good.

 

[Bluetown]

You what, mate? Have we travelled back to the 19-20 season?

I appreciate Gundogan's scoring form last season might have been caused by a change of position that enabled a bit of a purple patch for him, but he's been here five years now and still consistently starts in big games. There must be a reason for that. Pep doesn't suffer fools and he clearly trusts Gundogan, so the idea that he's been "rubbish" is really extreme. Pep's had no issue dropping club legends (or selling them), he's had no issue leaving players out for weeks when he deems that they're not doing well enough. I can't recall Gundogan ever going through a phase where he was benched for a long stretch despite being fit and available. He was instrumental in the 18/19 run-in and once again in our title-win last season, while the rest of his City career he's been a decent, professional option to fill in whenever Silva or Fernandinho haven't been available.

I'm actually a bigger fan of Gundogan than most people and have often seen real value in him where others haven't, but even if you were being really critical I think the worst you could accuse him of is not being as effective as David Silva in that #8 role and maybe being a little slow to accelerate. But we know now (given how good they've both been for ages now) that the Rodri-Gundogan double pivot was suffering from more systemic issues in 2019 and had little to do with them both as individuals. Rodri was getting used to his new position while dealing with a makeshift defence behind him (remember that we had to play Fernandinho at CB alongside Otamendi on far too many occasions), while Gundogan was in and out of the side with David Silva on his last legs. It's something Pep needed to sort out by fixing other areas of the team and that's exactly what he did.

As for Gundogan being at the heart of our Champions League exits... Christ, that's a massive stretch. He wasn't even involved in the Monaco games, so scratch those off the list. Liverpool - I don't think it's Gundogan's fault that Pep started him on the right-wing and that our defence shat itself in sight of the Kop, nor the fact that we had two perfectly legitimate goals disallowed for offside over the course of the tie. Spurs - Aguero missed a penalty in the first leg and VAR screwed us over in the second leg. Lyon - I seem to remember it was Raheem who skied it from 4 yards instead of tapping in for 2-2. And I'm pretty sure it was the random inclusion of Sterling in the final last year that disrupted the balance of the team overall, not Gundogan, who had been there all season.

Well done YB, that’s an excellent summarisation and defence of Gundogan’s contribution to our beautiful football team over the last few years