What has the UK become?

[Chippy_boy]

Many many moons ago, should have keyed their cars too ;)

Or you could have done your utmost and been recognised for your extra efforts and got promoted and a big pay rise. Oh well, never mind.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The decline in this country, and its national standing in the last decade is both discernible and hugely significant.

Pretty much my entire adult life, up to the middle of the last decade i thought this country was a really good place to live. It wasn’t perfect, but things generally worked, and people pretty much rubbed along. There was too much inequality, but that’s not unique to this country. Overall, British society seemed to work ok overall.

Given that, the state we are now in is astonishing and alarming in equal measure.

And financially I’ve done really well out if the last ten years; and had the best decade of my life - so this isn’t a view rooted in any bitterness at the place my own life has arrived at, or any boring old fart weariness with life. I’m genuinely loving my own life.

It’s simply based on me observing what’s around me.

Shunning the Greek PM, the mere notion of sending asylum seekers to Rawanda and (whether you agree with the decision or not) an unelected PM abusing executive powers and cancelling an infrastructure project intended to operate for the next century are all so tin-pot. Really fucking small-time.

The last three PMs have all been completely ill-suited for the job. Hopelessly out of their depth. How has that been allowed to happen? The system has completely failed.

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

The decline in this country, and its national standing in the last decade is both discernible and hugely significant.

Pretty much my entire adult life, up to the middle of the last decade i thought this country was a really good place to live. It wasn’t perfect, but things generally worked, and people pretty much rubbed along. There was too much inequality, but that’s not unique to this country. Overall, British society seemed to work ok overall.

Given that, the state we are now in is astonishing and alarming in equal measure.

And financially I’ve done really well out if the last ten years; and had the best decade of my life - so this isn’t a view rooted in any bitterness at the place my own life has arrived at, or any boring old fart weariness with life. I’m genuinely loving my own life.

It’s simply based on me observing what’s around me.

Shunning the Greek PM, the mere notion of sending asylum seekers to Rawanda and (whether you agree with the decision or not) an unelected PM abusing executive powers and cancelling an infrastructure project intended to operate for the next century are all so tin-pot. Really fucking small-time.

The last three PMs have all been completely ill-suited for the job. Hopelessly out of their depth. How has that been allowed to happen? The system has completely failed.

Notwithstanding the unquestionable ineptitude of the past few years, in answer to the question ‘what have we become’, I’d counter with ‘what were we before’. I don’t think most of the problems in the UK are unique to the UK, rather modern society. I travel the world a lot…and everywhere has its issues, including destinations people on here would assume to be utopian, and no doubt everywhere has forums asking the same questions through rose tinted specs.

I grew up in Ancoats, Beswick and Clayton…and the place had a significant number of scrotes and pure scum bags. I’d say more parts of Manchester were no go areas than there are now, and Manchester in particular is a fantastic city to visit compared to when I grew up. I don’t look back at things now thinking how things are patently worse now than then.

I’m not sure what we’re measuring things against, other than the lens of social media posts bemoaning everything, but I’d take living in the Uk over most other parts of the world…because it still has a significant amount to offer.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Notwithstanding the unquestionable ineptitude of the past few years, in answer to the question ‘what have we become’, I’d counter with ‘what were we before’. I don’t think most of the problems in the UK are unique to the UK, rather modern society. I travel the world a lot…and everywhere has its issues, including destinations people on here would assume to be utopian, and no doubt everywhere has forums asking the same questions through rose tinted specs.

I grew up in Ancoats, Beswick and Clayton…and the place had a significant number of scrotes and pure scum bags. I’d say more parts of Manchester were no go areas than there are now, and Manchester in particular is a fantastic city to visit compared to when I grew up. I don’t look back at things now thinking how things are patently worse now than then.

I’m not sure what we’re measuring things against, other than the lens of social media posts bemoaning everything, but I’d take living in the Uk over most other parts of the world…because it still has a significant amount to offer.

With me, it’s definitely not social media posts. And I did give examples.

It’s also based on things like the railways, hospitals, courts, police and politics not working anything like they used to.

It’s based on how much ruder people are than they were twenty years ago.

It’s based in the sheer numbers of homeless people in our cities compared to a couple of decades ago.

It’s based on how disrespectful we have been as a nation to our neighbours, with whom we had good relations in the naughties.

So that’s what I’m measuring it against.

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

With me, it’s definitely not social media posts. And I did give examples.

It’s also based on things like the railways, hospitals, courts, police and politics not working anything like they used to.

It’s based on how much ruder people are than they were twenty years ago.

It’s based in the sheer numbers of homeless people in our cities compared to a couple of decades ago.

It’s based on how disrespectful we have been as a nation to our neighbours, with whom we had good relations in the naughties.

So that’s what I’m measuring it against.

Ok.

I’ll attempt to respond, but not looking for a fight.

The railways when they were run by British Rail..those railways?

Hospitals and the NHS, without wanting to derail this thread, is fundamentally a problem of the concept/service/infrastructure not being designed to deal with the ageing population. There is clearly things that can be done better, but that scratches the surface of the burden it would be to the tax payer to put it right…and the state pension is the same issue.

Re Politics and Police ‘where is it being done properly’, because it’s seemingly a shit show all over the place, including in European countries. It’s not a UK issue…so you could ask ‘what has the world become’ in this respect.

Re the homeless, I walked through the streets of Vancouver a few weeks back. I was literally stepping over homeless drug addicts on every block. Far worse than anything you’ve seen in Manchester. That’s Vancouver, generally regarded as top 5 greatest places on earth. What has Canada/Vancouver become, would be an equally/perhaps more valid question.

We’ve pretty much always treated our European cousins with disdain as a nation?

Is everything of importance shittier in the UK than it once was. In my eyes it certainly isn’t, and in most respects no worse than other places.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Why would we be fighting?! It’s a debate from different perspectives on the internet :-)

Railways were far better (technology notwithstanding) and more affordable, under BR.

Fair point on hospitals, but my point remains about their discernible decline in functionality in this country over the last decade.

Fair point about politics in western countries becoming increasingly dysfunctional, probably because of western decline more generally. It’s far more pronounced here and in the States than the rest of Western Europe though.

Vancouver has always had a big homelessness problem, as I saw for myself in 1999, so not the best example, but yes, it’s a western problem - but palpably worse here than in the rest of Europe I would say - and, like you, I’m well-travelled so comment from an informed perspective.

Don’t agree that we’ve always treated our European neighbours with disdain. We were in a trading and political union with them until recently. Surely you must acknowledge that those relations are far worse than they were twenty years ago?

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

Why would we be fighting?! It’s a debate from different perspectives on the internet :-)

Railways were far better (technology notwithstanding) and more affordable, under BR.

Fair point on hospitals, but my point remains about their discernible decline in functionality in this country over the last decade.

Fair point about politics in western countries becoming increasingly dysfunctional, probably because of western decline more generally. It’s far more pronounced here and in the States than the rest of Western Europe though.

Vancouver has always had a big homelessness problem, as I saw for myself in 1999, so not the best example, but yes, it’s a western problem - but palpably worse here than in the rest of Europe I would say - and, like you, I’m well-travelled so comment from an informed perspective.

Don’t agree that we’ve always treated our European neighbours with disdain. We were in a trading and political union with them until recently. Surely you must acknowledge that those relations are far worse than they were twenty years ago?

I was getting my defensive posture in. Hard to talk/debate on this forum, though I should have given you more credit.

I’m not old enough to remember that much about British Rail…and wasn’t a regular user, but I remember the constant berating of it by anyone who used it or worked in it. Didn’t strike me as a great service and don’t remember too many dissenting voices disagreeing about the reasons cited as the need to privatise. I’m not saying everyone agreed with privatisation…but everyone agreed it was shit.

Hospitals will Continue to decline, unless we’re prepared as a nation to pay significantly more, and increasingly more taxes than we do. I just don’t see it as a ‘UK’ problem worthy of criticism, as the ‘problem’ is trying to sustain something that just wasn’t designed for the population we have.

I don’t think political issues are more pronounced here, than say France, Germany or Holland. They’re different in some respects, and closer to home so feel more pronounced.

Through my eyes at least, as a country we’re still great, have a lot to offer (and more to offer) in lots of respects, have improved many aspects of our quality of life, and having worked and lived in places that are supposed to be better…we moved back here in 2019 and haven’t regretted it for a single day.

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

Why would we be fighting?! It’s a debate from different perspectives on the internet :-)

Railways were far better (technology notwithstanding) and more affordable, under BR.

Fair point on hospitals, but my point remains about their discernible decline in functionality in this country over the last decade.

Fair point about politics in western countries becoming increasingly dysfunctional, probably because of western decline more generally. It’s far more pronounced here and in the States than the rest of Western Europe though.

Vancouver has always had a big homelessness problem, as I saw for myself in 1999, so not the best example, but yes, it’s a western problem - but palpably worse here than in the rest of Europe I would say - and, like you, I’m well-travelled so comment from an informed perspective.

Don’t agree that we’ve always treated our European neighbours with disdain. We were in a trading and political union with them until recently. Surely you must acknowledge that those relations are far worse than they were twenty years ago?

Forgot to address the final comment about relations with Europe. There is clearly going to be some fallout at certain levels/interface following Brexit, and noses put out of joint. People are people. However, people being people also means that over time that will soften, and where people see that there’s no point cutting your nose off to spite your face, they will be reeastablised. I believe France is already ditching the 90 days rule as being self defeating as an example of softening.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Through my eyes at least, as a country we’re still great, have a lot to offer (and more to offer) in lots of respects, have improved many aspects of our quality of life, and having worked and lived in places that are supposed to be better…we moved back here in 2019 and haven’t regretted it for a single day.

Genuinely pleased for you mate. And I’ve not reached the moving away stage, just yet. Can see it happening in a few years though.

Maybe I’m just morphing into an FOC!

 

[Saddleworth2]

Shunning the Greek PM, the mere notion of sending asylum seekers to Rawanda and (whether you agree with the decision or not) an unelected PM abusing executive powers and cancelling an infrastructure project intended to operate for the next century are all so tin-pot. Really fucking small-time.

At least two of the above would not even feature in the top ten crimes against the nation that this government have perpetrated. I genuinely believe some of them should be jailed for their role in our demise.