What has the UK become?

I'd dispute that. It will be 30 years next year That rail privatisation in the UK began. To soften it up it was deprived of adequate funding for a number of years so to have experienced the old BR you'd probably have to be about 50. A lot of people and "political commentators" lazily parrot the stuff others are feeding them.

As for running 2 parallel services when private services hand the keys back because they are shit and not making any money the Govt does take over and when they do services improve as does customer satisfaction which is why they look to sell it off ASAP

Then they did sell it off and guess who bought a few shares and instead of taking the cash bought extra shares with the money yes I did, we received the original investment back but not the money we lost.
Government robbery big shareholders sold, but small shareholders lost out. I would never trust the government again big business is there top priority.
 
Across England and Wales, 46% of people identified as being Christian, 37% said they had no religion, 6% identified as Muslim, and 2% identified as Hindu. Around 2% identified as being Buddhist, Sikh, Jewish or of another religion.

don't engage with him he is a race baiter and wumming
 
One thing I've noticed recently is the rise in passive aggression In our great nation.
This is perhaps what happens when you move from a High Trust society into a Low Trust society.


I'm over it. I don't look forward to the next greedy, passive aggressive demonstration against me but I expect it, and I don't fear it, at all. People who really ought to know so much better think they are safe because they are on trend. It's a good way to get properly taught a lesson.

Here's a free pointer, as to how perception works from moment to moment.


Go with the flow, at your own peril.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I know quite a lot of railway history. So I can tell you this - most of the old private companies never made a bean. (They survived because, oddly, there was a concept of public service that is quite extinct today, certainly in the private sector.) Dividends were often low or non-existent for decades. The Cambrian Railways, serving much of rural Wales, is a good example. Run on a shoestring with antique rolling stock, it was never going to make anyone rich. The people behind it were largely bigwigs with a concept of noblesse oblige. They ran the railway chiefly for the public good, although most of them had interests in Wales, such as landowning, so they benefited indirectly.

As statutory companies, they did not go bankrupt. The very worst that could happen was they were put into receivership under the supervision of the courts, either until someone took them over or they somehow managed to square the books and exit this status.

This was in the glory days before WWI when there was no effective competition unless you count the carrier's cart and coastal shipping. Everything went by rail, from newspapers to elephants.

The railways that did make money were few and far between. What they had in common was heavy goods and mineral traffic. The North Eastern, with a virtual monopoly of what was a very prosperous area at the time, was an example of a large, profitable company. The Taff Vale, which mainly existed to take coal to Cardiff Docks, is an example of a small one.

In all cases, passenger traffic was the icing on the cake, not the cake.

World War One effectively fucked this model. Our coal export business died for a start. Then, after the war, every Tom, Dick and Harry bought a war surplus lorry and started a road haulage business. From that, the present road haulage industry grew.

In short, the railways gradually lost all their most profitable traffic. It's a bit of an exaggeration to say that they were all basket cases by the end of WW2, but only a bit. The war and its aftermath propped them up for a while, but cheap oil and petrol soon ended that.

Anyway, with very rare exceptions, passenger traffic just is not profitable. Commuter traffic, which requires stock to sit in sidings for much of the day doing nowt, is particularly unremunerative.

The cold truth is that for national, social and political reasons, the railways need to be subsidised. And our train fares are less subsidised than most in Europe which is why the fares are so stupidly high.

Now, given that you are going to subsidise the service - or certainly the great majority of it - is there any advantage in giving that public money to private companies when we could give it to an industry that we own?

Privatisation has led to the ludicrous situation where one company runs the trains, another leases out the rolling stock, and a third (owned by the state!) provides the infrastructure. This is instead of an integrated structure! The inefficiencies should be obvious.

It also leads to the absurdity that the three trains an hour from Manchester to Sheffield are run by three different companies, with all the cheap tickets only valid on one. You have to pay more if you want to just travel on any train. How is that sane? It's more like something out of Alice in Wonderland. Under BR, with very rare exceptions, your ticket, however cheap, was valid by any train. You did not have to look at the livery of the coaches to work out whether you were allowed on.
An excellent summary.

I've mentioned before how Thatcherite policies didn't help. In the 60s and early 70s British Rail built up a great leisure industry from weekend day trips. Most went from towns to the seaside, but some seaside resorts offered mystery excursions "to a city destination" - and one Manchester couple on holiday in Margate found themselves on a mystery trip, back to Manchester. They went home for a cup of tea then got the special back to Margate. Plus the "private and not for publication" working timetables would show the (not published) destination for a mystery trip, until at Birmingham New Street the announcer said "The train at platform 12 is the 0810 Mystery Excursion to Weston-super-Mare". Thereafter the timetable just said (e.g.) "to Western Region" and not even the driver at New Street knew its destination.

The rolling stock was 90 mph coaches being replaced with newer 100 mph coaches, and the motive power was locomotives used Monday to Friday on freight. Good too for football specials - maybe 20 for a Wembley final.

Then Thatcher came in with accountants who said using coaches only one or two days out of seven was poor stock utilisation, so they stopped, and BR lost all the marginal profit from trains that cost only the fuel and staff wages.

As for public service, my favourite story (not quite the point) was Sir Richard Marsh, newly appointed as chairman of the BR Board, telling how he got off a train at Euston and a porter (remember them?) took his bags to the taxi. Marsh offered him a tip, and he said "Oh no, Sir Richard, I don't take money from people I work with."
 
Last edited:
Then Thatcher came in with accountants who said using coaches only one or two days out of seven was poor stock utilisation, so they stopped, and BR lost all the marginal profit from trains that cost only the fuel and staff wages.

will they be the one's who advised water companies that cleaning shit out of sewage was a waste of money - much cheaper just just pump it in the sea
 
don't engage with him he is a race baiter and wumming
You have nothing to accuse me of being a racist it was my opinion after all it’s a forum for discussion I take great umbrage at what you have said and I await your apology
 
This is perhaps what happens when you move from a High Trust society into a Low Trust society.


I'm over it. I don't look forward to the next greedy, passive aggressive demonstration against me but I expect it, and I don't fear it, at all. People who really ought to know so much better think they are safe because they are on trend. It's a good way to get properly taught a lesson.

Here's a free pointer, as to how perception works from moment to moment.


Go with the flow, at your own peril.
Thank for this illuminating reading.
 

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.