When did it all start to go wrong?

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

Fuck me some of you are like a broken record - It's all because we sacked Mancini boo hoo fucking hoo. You're like the people who just never seems to move on from that bird that has left you.

He's been gone nearly 2 years - we have enjoyed the best season of our lives and are now having a dog shit season.#

The league is now stronger from when Mancini was here - Chelsea are far stronger (especially with Mourinho), Rags, Arse, Scousers, Soton & Spurs are too. Our team is fucking older. Who says Mancini would have done better? Also fucking FFP has meant we have not been able to increase our Net Spend - hence we have not been able to go out and buy the 3/4 £40m+ super players and squad players that we need.

People really do not get how much FFP and us trying to comply has bollocksed us for the last 2/3 seasons. This shit is real.

The circle will continue on these threads. The next one around will say "its fucked up since those Barca c**ts arrived" and around we go again.

You can tell I've not had a drink for 4 months :)

Excellent post. I thought it was just the team which is supposed to have gone backwards, but this thread now reads exactly as some did two years ago. I thought the decision to sack Mancini was madness at the time but it's clear that the dressing room was almost in open revolt. Pellegrini came in and last season, after a very shaky start, was easily the best season I can remember in 60 years of supporting City. Both Mancini and Pellegrini have earned very honoured places in the history of our club, as have players like Sergio, David, Ya Ya and many others. But nothing lasts forever and the debate as to which of the two managers was the best is arid and insulting. There is much to be done this season, not least securing a place in next season's CL and then we have to ready ourselves to come out next season firing on all cylinders, maintaining excellent form all season and adding to our trophy room. Do we have the manager? Do we have the players? Do we have the backroom staff? What exactly has gone wrong and how do we fix it - now and in the summer?

 

[ballbag]

That might be the silliest thing I've ever read. Did Mancini not inherit VK, PZ, NDJ, Barry and Tevez from Hughes? Added a couple of his players and won the league before having one similar to this?

The difference though is the team Pellegrini inherited had already won an FA Cup & a league title and had just finished a clear 2nd & were losing cup finalists, whilst the one Mancini inherited had won squat and were heading in a southerly direction in the PL.

Every manager inherits a squad and tries to put his stamp on it and over time the personnel will evolve too, so I think its unfair to say Mancini just 'added a couple of his players and won the league. Those players added were Aguero, Dzeko, Balotelli, Silva, Nasri, Yaya, Hart (chosen over Given), Clichy and Kolorov and he also gave us an identity in terms of playing style. We were hard to beat, controlled most PL games and were deadly in front of goal.

Pellegrini 'took the shackles off' and went for an all out attacking policy whilst trusting the players to let their ability do the talking. Keegan did a similar thing at Newcastle and had a philosophy of 'If you score 3, we'll score 4' which excited the neutrals but won him nowt. Last season we did a double which was our best return in a single season for decades, but somehow our performances never felt controlled or convincing and the defensive solidity we'd built our foundations on were being steadily eroded.

If I can draw an analogy, its like putting an F1 car in the hands of a teenage boy racer and expecting a win or expecting Mayweather and Pacquiao to come out flailing their arms each other like windmills if you will in the hope one or the other will score a knockout win before the other one does or before the windmill merchant runs out of steam. There will always be someone who has a punchers of winning but in the long run, skill married to tactics will always have the better longevity.

What I can see this season is a direct result of that all out attacking, trust the players ability philosophy from last, because at the highest level talent will only get you so far. Tactics and hard work are what make good sportsmen or teams great, we've got the talent but we've been found to be a one trick pony tactically to the point where even Big Fat Sam figured out how to beat us.

For a club with our ambitions, this isn't good........... Who can say on current form they feel confident about Sunday v West Ham? On a final note, during Macini's final season, our downturn in form was blamed on him, so why is our current downturn being blamed on the players this time around? Those above our manager need to take a long hard look at the part part they've played in this season's poor showing as.the problems I can see set in long before a ball was kicked in anger last August....

Cracking reply, Dribble. I do agree with a lot of what you're saying...I'm just a bit bored of the same posts day in and day out.

The point of my reply was to, as you have also pointed out, suggest that every manager inherits a squad. And I agree the additions Mancini added were huge factors in a better defence, mentality and organisation than what Hughes brought to the table. However, after a shocking set of transfers the year after we won the title (not blaming Mancini for that, sounds like he had other players in mind) we looked poor on the pitch and even worse off it. And the attacking football we played after 2012 was even worse than it is now. The end of the 2012/2013 season was just as flat as this, but we had the FA Cup final to come and then it got worse. If we don't make top 4 this season then this season would be worse than that. However, to sack a manager (any manager) every other year, or if we don't win A SINGLE trophy despite still getting Champs League football doesn't necessarily mean that'd be the best option for the club or the fans (in my opinion anyway). I see a lot of 'Get Mancini back' shouts on here (not my preference). Maybe Mancini could have turned it round and won the league last year given more time - maybe not. I'm not here to argue that because its pointless. All I'm saying is, it only takes a few top additions to turn a team's fortunes round. And I wouldn't mind MP getting that chance so we can see if its him and the defensive tactics or the squad that need sorting. If he gets the chop then I won't cry about it either. Football doesn't mean that much to me as it did when I was 14.

 

[Dribble]

The difference though is the team Pellegrini inherited had already won an FA Cup & a league title and had just finished a clear 2nd & were losing cup finalists, whilst the one Mancini inherited had won squat and were heading in a southerly direction in the PL.

Every manager inherits a squad and tries to put his stamp on it and over time the personnel will evolve too, so I think its unfair to say Mancini just 'added a couple of his players and won the league. Those players added were Aguero, Dzeko, Balotelli, Silva, Nasri, Yaya, Hart (chosen over Given), Clichy and Kolorov and he also gave us an identity in terms of playing style. We were hard to beat, controlled most PL games and were deadly in front of goal.

Pellegrini 'took the shackles off' and went for an all out attacking policy whilst trusting the players to let their ability do the talking. Keegan did a similar thing at Newcastle and had a philosophy of 'If you score 3, we'll score 4' which excited the neutrals but won him nowt. Last season we did a double which was our best return in a single season for decades, but somehow our performances never felt controlled or convincing and the defensive solidity we'd built our foundations on were being steadily eroded.

If I can draw an analogy, its like putting an F1 car in the hands of a teenage boy racer and expecting a win or expecting Mayweather and Pacquiao to come out flailing their arms each other like windmills if you will in the hope one or the other will score a knockout win before the other one does or before the windmill merchant runs out of steam. There will always be someone who has a punchers of winning but in the long run, skill married to tactics will always have the better longevity.

What I can see this season is a direct result of that all out attacking, trust the players ability philosophy from last, because at the highest level talent will only get you so far. Tactics and hard work are what make good sportsmen or teams great, we've got the talent but we've been found to be a one trick pony tactically to the point where even Big Fat Sam figured out how to beat us.

For a club with our ambitions, this isn't good........... Who can say on current form they feel confident about Sunday v West Ham? On a final note, during Macini's final season, our downturn in form was blamed on him, so why is our current downturn being blamed on the players this time around? Those above our manager need to take a long hard look at the part part they've played in this season's poor showing as.the problems I can see set in long before a ball was kicked in anger last August....

Cracking reply, Dribble. I do agree with a lot of what you're saying...I'm just a bit bored of the same posts day in and day out.

The point of my reply was to, as you have also pointed out, suggest that every manager inherits a squad. And I agree the additions Mancini added were huge factors in a better defence, mentality and organisation than what Hughes brought to the table. However, after a shocking set of transfers the year after we won the title (not blaming Mancini for that, sounds like he had other players in mind) we looked poor on the pitch and even worse off it. And the attacking football we played after 2012 was even worse than it is now. The end of the 2012/2013 season was just as flat as this, but we had the FA Cup final to come and then it got worse. If we don't make top 4 this season then this season would be worse than that. However, to sack a manager (any manager) every other year, or if we don't win A SINGLE trophy despite still getting Champs League football doesn't necessarily mean that'd be the best option for the club or the fans (in my opinion anyway). I see a lot of 'Get Mancini back' shouts on here (not my preference). Maybe Mancini could have turned it round and won the league last year given more time - maybe not. I'm not here to argue that because its pointless. All I'm saying is, it only takes a few top additions to turn a team's fortunes round. And I wouldn't mind MP getting that chance so we can see if its him and the defensive tactics or the squad that need sorting. If he gets the chop then I won't cry about it either. Football doesn't mean that much to me as it did when I was 14.

To be fair Ballbag (I won't ask how you came by that username) :-), both post title-winning seasons were flat, however the difference was is that in 2012-2013 we were still well ahead of the chasing pack and had the premier domestic cup to contend albeit we lost in the final. Mancini tried to add flexibility into our formations by using 3 defenders in order to break down the increasingly stubborn defences we were coming up against. At times the organisation of that formation looked shambolic and school boy like, but I understood the sentiment behind it although it rarely looked like working.

During this post title winning season, the only tactical changes made to counteract packed defences and swift counter-attacking teams were the ones which were enforced because of our stiker shortage around November/December. This happened to coincide with our best run of the season, but as soon as our stikers were fit again, we reverted to MP's preferred 442 formation and our fortunes slumped. Pundits, fans and by the looks of it possibly some of the players have been crying out for a change in our tactical battle plan but to no avail as we've stuck with the same formations which have mostly brought us the same results. Both post title winning season performances have been gut-wrenching to watch at times, but the big difference with this season is that our place in the Champions League is now seriously under threat which it wasn't in 2012-2013 and I don't recall us being so persitently poor back then either.

Those who want Mancini back are few and far between and I'm not one of them as I've never believed in going back, but we've got an incumbent manager who I just wish could see what many others can and would listen to what many others are saying. Ultimately my interest in football centres around Manchester City and I only want what's best for our club which is to win everything in sight season after season. Madness and unachievable yes, but its what most fans want albeit they know its a virtual impossibilty. I will happily settle for winning a major trophy or two every season, but if we had to suffer the odd barren year here and there then so be it. The thing that becomes hard to take is seeing the first team stagnate or going backward when I honestly don't believe we have to.

We're a relatively new organisation in the sense that Sheikh Mansour only took us over 7 years ago and during that time we've had a fantastic journey. We've done many great things and made some mistakes along the way too. So where did it all go wrong? There are many opinions which I suppose are all valid, but whether Pellegrini is the right man to take us further or someone else is, all fans should be united in one common cause which is to see Manchester City advance as an institution and as a team. Those fans who wanted to see us lose so Mancini would be sacked are just as appaling as those who want us to lose on Sunday so Pellegrini will be sacked and for me they are no fans at all or at least fans I want to associate with. For me, I personally couldn't care less which multi-millionaire manager is at the helm, as long as we remain successful and on an upward trajectory and if that is to be Pellegrini, or if it was Mancini / Hughes before him, well so be it.

Managers, players, coaches, DoF's, CEO's etc will come and go, but the one constant will always be us the true fans who always want City to win. We'd do well to remember this when tearing each other apart over things we have very little control over.

One last thing.... Do you prefer to be called Ballbag or Scrotum? :-)