When did it all start to go wrong?

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

I'm not going to quote it but that's a cracking post BluesinceHydeRoad and it's helped me define what I see as the problem.

The pundits say we aren't working hard enough but I just don't think the players know what "work" they're supposed to be doing. If that's the case then it's a damning indictment of Pellegrini. If he's telling the players to do something and they aren't doing it, then it's on them. From what I can see, it's the former. There's little evidence of detailed preparation in our play, including at set pieces.

I read a great article in The Blizzard about Guardiola's methods and without going into it in detail, there was a plan when they had the ball, with every player knowing where they were supposed to be and what they were supposed to and also where their team mates were going to be and what they were going to do. But they also had a detailed set of routines when they didn't have the ball. If they couldn't win it back within 5 seconds, they'd change their shape to a more defensive one. If an opponent attacked them with the ball, someone would close them down whole the other defenders would cover in case they got past the first defender.

Obviously it helps when you have a player like Messi but mainly you need players who have the ability to execute the drills they're expected to carry out.

Baconface was so successful because he had a set of drills that, more often than not, a largely average group of players executed flawlessly.

This is exactly the point, and I keep harping on about the episode on Sunday when Silva and Aguero had a gesticulating, glaring and moaning moment because they clearly had little idea of where they were supposed to be or what they were supposed to be doing. This is Aguero and Silva - when they're confused you know you've got real problems. A few weeks before it was Vinnie and Ferna in the dressing room. And all we ever see is Pellers sitting with his head in his hands. Is that all he does on the training ground?

 

[Chippy_boy]

I'm not going to quote it but that's a cracking post BluesinceHydeRoad and it's helped me define what I see as the problem.

The pundits say we aren't working hard enough but I just don't think the players know what "work" they're supposed to be doing. If that's the case then it's a damning indictment of Pellegrini. If he's telling the players to do something and they aren't doing it, then it's on them. From what I can see, it's the former. There's little evidence of detailed preparation in our play, including at set pieces.

I read a great article in The Blizzard about Guardiola's methods and without going into it in detail, there was a plan when they had the ball, with every player knowing where they were supposed to be and what they were supposed to and also where their team mates were going to be and what they were going to do. But they also had a detailed set of routines when they didn't have the ball. If they couldn't win it back within 5 seconds, they'd change their shape to a more defensive one. If an opponent attacked them with the ball, someone would close them down whole the other defenders would cover in case they got past the first defender.

Obviously it helps when you have a player like Messi but mainly you need players who have the ability to execute the drills they're expected to carry out.

Baconface was so successful because he had a set of drills that, more often than not, a largely average group of players executed flawlessly.

Nall on the head. I said in another post somewhere that although there are 1 or 2 players whose commitment you could question, we are wrong to tar them all with that brush. 8 or 9 players worked their socks off on Sunday, but they just didn't have a clue what they were supposed to be doing.

We had Milner covering Carrick for the first 5 minutes or so and it worked perfectly. Then they equalised and we went to pieces. Milner decided he was a striker and left Yaya and Fernandino on their own in the middle and we were back to 4-4-2 again and basically fucked from there on in.

I don't want to turn this into a Pellegrini-slagging session, but you do have to ask serious questions when the players after 2 years still don't seem to know what the plan is.

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

I'm not going to quote it but that's a cracking post BluesinceHydeRoad and it's helped me define what I see as the problem.

The pundits say we aren't working hard enough but I just don't think the players know what "work" they're supposed to be doing. If that's the case then it's a damning indictment of Pellegrini. If he's telling the players to do something and they aren't doing it, then it's on them. From what I can see, it's the former. There's little evidence of detailed preparation in our play, including at set pieces.

I read a great article in The Blizzard about Guardiola's methods and without going into it in detail, there was a plan when they had the ball, with every player knowing where they were supposed to be and what they were supposed to and also where their team mates were going to be and what they were going to do. But they also had a detailed set of routines when they didn't have the ball. If they couldn't win it back within 5 seconds, they'd change their shape to a more defensive one. If an opponent attacked them with the ball, someone would close them down whole the other defenders would cover in case they got past the first defender.

Obviously it helps when you have a player like Messi but mainly you need players who have the ability to execute the drills they're expected to carry out.

Baconface was so successful because he had a set of drills that, more often than not, a largely average group of players executed flawlessly.

I've never for one second thought that it was a case of players not working, not being arsed and all the rest of it, but they're working badly. They're in fact working independently of each other, without apparently communicating, which is death for a team. United's second goal. Navas is on his man. The United player has slowed down, stopped in fact. He doesn't know what to do. He knows he's not going to beat Navas for pace, not from a standing start, and he's lost his impetus to dribble him. What happens? Zab comes scuttling over, for no apparent reason. Now there's a man free. The ball goes back to Young, I think it was — in any case, it was Zab's man! — who now has a nice little window in which to tee up the ball, and send the cross over for Fellaini. It was a good cross, but it should have been possible to deal with it, no sweat. Clichy meanwhile is dithering, trying to play the offside on a man whose position he doesn't exactly know. He moves forwards, then backwards, then forwards, and all the time he doesn't know where Fellaini is. Goal. It's just poor workmanship. The third goal is a different kettle of fish — Yaya's behaviour on that is truly disgusting, and I wouldn't analyse it the same way.
One other thing though. Somebody said on another thread that the team, as a whole, as a unit, was visibly quicker two or three years back, and it's true. Not that we always played at haring speed all the time. We were good at slowing the ball down, then suddenly accelerating the whole pace of movement. That just hasn't been happening right through this season. We've got to get new blood in that is both young, and quality, this summer.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

I'm not going to quote it but that's a cracking post BluesinceHydeRoad and it's helped me define what I see as the problem.

The pundits say we aren't working hard enough but I just don't think the players know what "work" they're supposed to be doing. If that's the case then it's a damning indictment of Pellegrini. If he's telling the players to do something and they aren't doing it, then it's on them. From what I can see, it's the former. There's little evidence of detailed preparation in our play, including at set pieces.

I read a great article in The Blizzard about Guardiola's methods and without going into it in detail, there was a plan when they had the ball, with every player knowing where they were supposed to be and what they were supposed to and also where their team mates were going to be and what they were going to do. But they also had a detailed set of routines when they didn't have the ball. If they couldn't win it back within 5 seconds, they'd change their shape to a more defensive one. If an opponent attacked them with the ball, someone would close them down whole the other defenders would cover in case they got past the first defender.

Obviously it helps when you have a player like Messi but mainly you need players who have the ability to execute the drills they're expected to carry out.

Baconface was so successful because he had a set of drills that, more often than not, a largely average group of players executed flawlessly.

I think you both make an excellent point. So are our players incapable or unwilling to perform the drills expected of them? Or are the drills themselves insufficient (or lacking altogether)?

I can accept that some of our players are not getting any younger but I can't accept statements that the team is too old. The best team we have played this season - Barcelona - put out a team that was 2 months a man younger than our eleven. The oldest man on the pitch was MDM, but he's been one of our better players this season, and Barca had more players over 30 than we did! Yet it's hard to think of one aspect of the game in which they weren't vastly superior, with the exception of Joe Hart in one-on-ones. What has disappeared from City's game almost completely is the ability to put any pressure on the ball at all. Think of Chelsea's opening goal against us at Stamford Bridge, which earned them a point they scarcely deserved. We can all think of many examples of goals where we've stood off because we have no choice because the team simply isn't in position to press the ball. On Sunday Sergio must have run miles trying to force De Gea to kick long and give the ball away to find that he was pressing on his own and De Gea had too simple, short passes out of trouble. United often got the ball at the back, one City lad would press, he'd be played out of the game by one of two or three simple out balls and before you knew it they were 40 yards up the pitch against a team with no defensive formation at all. Ya Ya and Ferna found themselves outnumbered 4 to 2 on countless occasions. This has to be the manager's fault. If players don't want to, or are too stupid to, obey instructions why has he persevered with basically the same players for 36 PL matches. And I don't see why lads who have won every honour in the domestic game in the space of 3 years should suddenly retire withou telling anyone.

 

[Bill]

The day Mancini was sacked, the defence has gradually gone worse with almost every game all this chopping and changing with players does not work. Mancini was the man who stopped the clock and I for one will never forget that, so you city fans now slagging him off should hang your heads in shame, you all have a very short memory, have you forgotten about going in work on a Monday morning and some rag is giving you shit, well Mancini stopped all that and even fucked off whisky nose.

100% right

make that 1000%

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The day Mancini was sacked, the defence has gradually gone worse with almost every game

In 2012/13, Mancini's last season, we scored 66 goals and conceded 34. In 2012/13 under Pellegrini we scored 102 goals and conceded 37. So far this season, we've conceded 34.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

The day Mancini was sacked, the defence has gradually gone worse with almost every game

In 2012/13, Mancini's last season, we scored 66 goals and conceded 34. In 2012/13 under Pellegrini we scored 102 goals and conceded 37. So far this season, we've conceded 34.

Off 34 attacks

 

[Marvin]

The day Mancini was sacked, the defence has gradually gone worse with almost every game

In 2012/13, Mancini's last season, we scored 66 goals and conceded 34. In 2012/13 under Pellegrini we scored 102 goals and conceded 37. So far this season, we've conceded 34.

Off 34 attacks

And gone are the days when we played two out and out forwards.

 

[BlueAnorak]

The day Mancini was sacked, the defence has gradually gone worse with almost every game

In 2012/13, Mancini's last season, we scored 66 goals and conceded 34. In 2012/13 under Pellegrini we scored 102 goals and conceded 37. So far this season, we've conceded 34.

Careful!

Lets compare oranges with oranges and lemons with lemons:

The oranges:
Mancini Champions Season 2011/12 F=93 A=29 GD=+64 Pts=89
Pellegrini Champions Season 2013/14 F=102 A=37 GD=+65 Pts=86
Pellegrini's team scored 9 more and conceded 8 more, but Mancini gota 3 more points.

The lemons:
Mancini Crash Dive Season 2012/13 F=66 A=34 GD=+32 Pts=78 (2nd)
Pellegrini Crash Dive Season 2014/15 F=65 A=35 GD=+31 Pts=61 (4th)
Pellegrini Crash Dive Season Extrapolated to conclusion 2014/15 F=77 A=42 GD=+35 Pts=72 (4th)
Pellegrini's team scores 11 more and concedes 10 more by Mancini gets 6 more points.

As can be seen there really isn't much difference on GD, though Mancini's team gets a few more points.

 

[Balti]

The day Mancini was sacked, the defence has gradually gone worse with almost every game

In 2012/13, Mancini's last season, we scored 66 goals and conceded 34. In 2012/13 under Pellegrini we scored 102 goals and conceded 37. So far this season, we've conceded 34.

Careful!

Lets compare oranges with oranges and lemons with lemons:

The oranges:
Mancini Champions Season 2011/12 F=93 A=29 GD=+64 Pts=89
Pellegrini Champions Season 2013/14 F=102 A=37 GD=+65 Pts=86
Pellegrini's team scored 9 more and conceded 8 more, but Mancini gota 3 more points.

The lemons:
Mancini Crash Dive Season 2012/13 F=66 A=34 GD=+32 Pts=78 (2nd)
Pellegrini Crash Dive Season 2014/15 F=65 A=35 GD=+31 Pts=61 (4th)
Pellegrini Crash Dive Season Extrapolated to conclusion 2014/15 F=77 A=42 GD=+35 Pts=72 (4th)
Pellegrini's team scores 11 more and concedes 10 more by Mancini gets 6 more points.

As can be seen there really isn't much difference on GD, though Mancini's team gets a few more points.

Bobby Mancs team carried Pellegrini for a while

He's being found out now