Which players are no longer good enough?

Citizen in Pakistan said:
Fernando will stay, he has been very good in in UCL and would be a good squad player

Out

Bony
Toure
Demi
Zabaleta
Kolorov
Nasri
Willy ( i would keep him for a season as we have more important position to fill at the moment)
Ihenacho might go out on loan i think, just a feeling
navas
Delph 50/50
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No chance of Nasri leaving, a technical player who is in his prime who the team has missed badly this season.

Iheanacho has twice the scoring rate of Bony and a better scoring rate than Sergio. Why would we send him on loan?

Willy Caballero can go. Angus Gunn is a better keeper who can also play the ball with his feet.

Delph looked good earlier this season and added much needed energy to the team. He has looked poor when played out of position.
 
Delph won't be shipped out after one season ruined by injuries, they just won't do that.

However he could get sidelined by any youth player that takes Guardiola's fancy or suits the system better than Delph.
 
No longer good enough, Zabaleta, Demichellis, Kolarov & Toure.
Never good enough. Fernando & Bony.

I think Pep will give Navas and Delph a season to prove themselves.

Two new full backs, Denayer back. Another striker and probably 3 centre mids.

6 new faces in, 6 out.

Busy summer.
 
Bony.
Bony and erm bony.
Someone put silva have a word with yourself he will be amazing under pep
 
FanchesterCity said:
I think Pep will have to have 4 categories of player...

1) Who is inadequate - sell
2) Who is adequate - keep, but actively start looking for upgrades
3) Who is nearing end of life - keep, but actively start scouting for replacements
4) Highly capable, and no need to replace

We have quite a few players in categories 1 & 2 (Ota,Mangala,Clichy,Kolarov,Navas,Bony, Sterling,Nasri,Delph,Fernandinho) - the question is which of those Pep feels he accept in improve and which he can't.
Many of our stalwarts - Kompany, Zab, Silva, Yaya are in category 3.
Arguably only Hart, Aguero and KdB are in category 4

When laid out like this, there's quite a lot of work to be done (or certainly lots of scope for improvement). Hand on heart, most of our players are not at the very high end of European football, they're at the higher end of PL football only, and of those that are high end, they're getting on.

We all debate about the future prospects of younger players like Nacho and Sterling, but if Pep is tasked with winning PL and CL and if here for 3 years, then we have to ask 'are they likely to be CL winning material in the next 2-3 years'?'


I am seriously hoping Pep believes he can coach a lot of players into being significantly better - e.g. Sterling, Delph, Ota, Mangala, Fernando otherwise he's got a hell of a job on his hands, because hand on heart, I think there's only Hart, Aguero and KdB that would pique the interests of Europe's very best teams, and maybe they'd take a punt on Sterling, but I'm not convinced.
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Like these categories so will run through the squad and comment.
Hart-Highly capable- hard decision this one as his limitations are well known also City to the core and a leader- STAY
Willy- Adequate- Has his critics but proved them wrong. Not sure if he can put enough pressure on Joe so likely to be replaced- GO
Kolorov-Inadequate- Frustrating player offers a lot going forward but can't defend for Toffee. Italy beckons-GO
Clichy-Adequate- Likely to be kept for another season but will be replaced in the medium term- STAY
Sagna-Adequate- Has played well this season but age not on his side could be kept in short term -STAY
Zabba-Adequate- Bad season and legs may be gone. A City legend but the tide is going out I fear if Sagna is favoured-GO
VK- Highly Capable- Should have 4/5 years left at top BUT? Will be given another season to prove his fitness-STAY
Mangala- Adequate- Much improved of late but poor passing skills will be given a chance I think-STAY
Ottomendi-Adequate- A player Pep can improve and likely to be given a season at least-STAY
MDM- Inadequate- Put in a good stint for us but clearly past it now-GO
Fernando-Adequate- Not a fans favourite but has improved. Not really a pep player might be surplus to requirements. GO
Navas-Adequate- Always puts in a shift but very poor in final third. May be kept for another season though. STAY
Silva-Highly Capable- Another player with injury issues. But pure class. Past 30 now but will get next season at least-STAY
Fernandinho- Adequate- Great season and not likely to be shown the door-STAY
Sterling-Adequate- This is one that could go either way. Could blossom under Pep or sink like a stone-Stay
YaYa- Adequate- Time has caught up with the big man. Another legend on his way I think-GO
Nasri-Adequate- Looks like he wants to stay and might be given a chance to prove himself-STAY
KDB-Highly capable- Class act and sure to be part of Peps plans. STAY
Delph-Inadequate- Injury prone season has not helped his cause but looks like an inferior version of Milner-GO
Nacho-Adequate- Could be a diamond but given no chance to shine by Peller and Pep may fancy him-STAY
Kun-Highly capable- What is there to say!!-STAY
Bony-Inadequate- If he is still around in Sept I would be very very surprised-GO
That makes about 8 heads on the block. Some might survive if replacements can't be found but I would expect at least 5 new faces and at least 3 younger players coming into the squad with a real chance of getting game time.
 
FanchesterCity said:
I think Pep will have to have 4 categories of player...

1) Who is inadequate - sell
2) Who is adequate - keep, but actively start looking for upgrades
3) Who is nearing end of life - keep, but actively start scouting for replacements
4) Highly capable, and no need to replace

We have quite a few players in categories 1 & 2 (Ota,Mangala,Clichy,Kolarov,Navas,Bony, Sterling,Nasri,Delph,Fernandinho) - the question is which of those Pep feels he accept in improve and which he can't.
Many of our stalwarts - Kompany, Zab, Silva, Yaya are in category 3.
Arguably only Hart, Aguero and KdB are in category 4

When laid out like this, there's quite a lot of work to be done (or certainly lots of scope for improvement). Hand on heart, most of our players are not at the very high end of European football, they're at the higher end of PL football only, and of those that are high end, they're getting on.

We all debate about the future prospects of younger players like Nacho and Sterling, but if Pep is tasked with winning PL and CL and if here for 3 years, then we have to ask 'are they likely to be CL winning material in the next 2-3 years'?'


I am seriously hoping Pep believes he can coach a lot of players into being significantly better - e.g. Sterling, Delph, Ota, Mangala, Fernando otherwise he's got a hell of a job on his hands, because hand on heart, I think there's only Hart, Aguero and KdB that would pique the interests of Europe's very best teams, and maybe they'd take a punt on Sterling, but I'm not convinced.
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Good one.
 
gregblag said:
The reason Silva has been poor is that he has been playing in pain through an injury. We could have used Kelechi as a link up player behind Sergio or Manu Garcia as well to fill in. It's driven me up the wall that Pellegrini distrusts youth to the degree that he would rather have poor displays from Silva and injure his long term health rather than give some very talented kids a chance. Our youth policy under Pellegrini has been criminal
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I agree with everything there but it's still the case that Silva has been poor quite often & has had the problem for years & may be working for much of the summer. Like Kompany, his actual contribution, for whatever reason, is below what we require & Pep will evaluate whether he sees him as getting fit enough to do the job required, which likely involves more work than the job he does now.
 
Has Silva been pooor this season? I thought his assists were better than previous seasons? at 30/31 he doesnt have much future but I did assume that both he and KDB are our only real creators and were probably good for another season.... they play really well together imo... I just think Silva will be asked to work harder and lets see if he does
 
ws01 said:
Good one.
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This is where I think we get blinkered... he's good in OUR midfield, because the rest are so poor (defensively). He's the one doing all the work and earning our praise - and rightly so.
However, if we are looking at 'best midfield in Europe' I honestly think he's 'adequate' material at best. Which is fine, you keep a player like that, but if you have the chance to upgrade, you will. In my opinion, he's doing a wonderful job for us, but he IS realistically upgradeable. Fernandinho is not on the shopping list of the clubs we are trying to emulate because they already have higher quality midfields.
 
Willy - Once finds a suitable replacement?
MDM - Much passed it and has to go
Zabba - Been a fantastic player for city, getting on in age.. may be given another year?
Kolarov - Doesn't offer enough defending.
Navas - Always puts in a shift, pep might fancy him. Give him another yaer!
Bony - Not suitable for us!
 
I would assume a lot will be determined by pay, contract length and if we can find someone to take em ,pay most of their wages and a transfer fee.

Nasri is contracted until 2019. He will stay I think.

Caballerro will go and I think a keeper will be brought in to really put pressure on Hart.

Surprisingly Fernandinho only has one year left on his contract Not sure why but that's the reality. What's going to happen there I don't know.

Sagna and zab both one yr- one will go. Probably zab as Sagna will be on huge wages.

Demichellis - will go as end of contract and frankly he is no longer fit for purpose.

Clichy one year left, Kolorov remarkably two! The latter will hopefully go but we may have to subsidise that one!

I think one of Ottamendi and Mangala will be at risk as I can see Pep wanting a much better ball player at the back. Mangala more likely to go based on that.

Fernando is too limited and I can't see him staying.

Delph will be given one year more while Pep shapes the squad as he is English. He won't play much though. I expect him to go the year after as he will never be at the required level.

Navas is in last chance saloon and may be given a year although he only has one year on his contract so maybe not. I don't think anyone will ever turn him into a great player.

Toure will go and that frees up a huge wage to dangle to someone else!

Bony will go if we can find a taker. Another that will no doubt cost us in low transfer fee and subsidised wages.

The midfield could be totally revamped I think.
 
I wonder how much all this uncertainty has damaged the morale and stability of the squad.

There must be a lot of players who don't know where they will be and what their role is at the club. I know they are on unbelievable money, but I'm thinking about focussed minds and happy people. We don't look like the focussed group who won two titles. You see that in teams like Leicester and Spurs now. Groups of players who are playing as a team, and with a purpose.

I don't think it's necessarily Pellegrini's fault. The club look like they decided years ago to go down the Pep route, and we've been unravelling slowly.

If I were Pep or Txiki, I'd be looking to bring in a couple of really top players but there's no need for wholesale changes. This team just needs an attitude adjustment and just one or two key players to be changed. Pep will have years(hopefully) to bring in the players he needs. Gradual is safest.
 
Marvin said:
I wonder how much all this uncertainty has damaged the morale and stability of the squad.

There must be a lot of players who don't know where they will be and what their role is at the club. I know they are on unbelievable money, but I'm thinking about focussed minds and happy people. We don't look like the focussed group who won two titles. You see that in teams like Leicester and Spurs now. Groups of players who are playing as a team, and with a purpose.

I don't think it's necessarily Pellegrini's fault. The club look like they decided years ago to go down the Pep route, and we've been unravelling slowly.

If I were Pep or Txiki, I'd be looking to bring in a couple of really top players but there's no need for wholesale changes. This team just needs an attitude adjustment and just one or two key players to be changed. Pep will have years(hopefully) to bring in the players he needs. Gradual is safest.
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It will have had an effect but I would have thought that players who see the best manager in the world coming in would want to showcase their talents. Seems not with our lot.

I think there will be more than one or two though. I would expect at least 4 signings and 2/3 promotions from the EDS.

Problem with our squad is the aging nature of it. Kompany, Sagna, Fernandinho Zab, Kolorov, Clichy, Silva, Toure are all over 30. They all need replacing in the next 1-4 years.
 
Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
It will have had an effect but I would have thought that players who see the best manager in the world coming in would want to showcase their talents. Seems not with our lot.

I think there will be more than one or two though. I would expect at least 4 signings and 2/3 promotions from the EDS.

Problem with our squad is the aging nature of it. Kompany, Sagna, Fernandinho Zab, Kolorov, Clichy, Silva, Toure are all over 30. They all need replacing in the next 1-4 years.
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Hart, Kompany, Silva, KDB, Aguero is the spine of a fantastic team. 30 is the peak for most footballers and if you stay fit you can stay at that level for some time.
 
So many people saying Silva. A player like him cannot perform if the team isn't set up correctly. Who in the teams moves off the ball for Silva to pass to? Navas doesn't move from the touchline, Sterling is seemingly scared of his own shadow now and will keep it simple, Nasri's been out for the entire season, KDB will offer runs but it's clear he prefers to be the passer and Sergio for all his talents doesn't make those kind of penetrating runs as nearly as often as we'd like, often because he's far too isolated and forced to drop deep into midfield just to get a touch. Pep will have players passing and most importantly moving! Silva will be in his element next season under Pep.

Everybody saying Silva, watch the match on Saturday and at any point during the game find a single example of more than 2 players ahead of the ball moving off the ball whilst we're in possession, i'd put money on it not happening right now.
 
The danger with highlighting a player like Silva (and he's just one example) is that you can quickly move in to a mode of thinking that is player centric. He's great, but only if other players around him do certain things etc. Quickly, you're starting to accommodate a very good player by adjusting others to fit his needs.

What should really happen is that if the TEAM has a specific need, we find a player that meets that need.

Aguero is another example of the same thing. It's almost without question he'll be first on the team sheet if fit - because he is so good. Then we fit players around him. Even though he is better than all the other players, in theory, we could be a better team with a worse striker, but a more balanced setup.

These are just examples of course, I'm not questioning Aguero! - it's just easy it is to pick the best players and not the best team.
 
Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
I would assume a lot will be determined by pay, contract length and if we can find someone to take em ,pay most of their wages and a transfer fee.

Nasri is contracted until 2019. He will stay I think.

Caballerro will go and I think a keeper will be brought in to really put pressure on Hart.

Surprisingly Fernandinho only has one year left on his contract Not sure why but that's the reality. What's going to happen there I don't know.

Sagna and zab both one yr- one will go. Probably zab as Sagna will be on huge wages.

Demichellis - will go as end of contract and frankly he is no longer fit for purpose.

Clichy one year left, Kolorov remarkably two! The latter will hopefully go but we may have to subsidise that one!

I think one of Ottamendi and Mangala will be at risk as I can see Pep wanting a much better ball player at the back. Mangala more likely to go based on that.

Fernando is too limited and I can't see him staying.

Delph will be given one year more while Pep shapes the squad as he is English. He won't play much though. I expect him to go the year after as he will never be at the required level.

Navas is in last chance saloon and may be given a year although he only has one year on his contract so maybe not. I don't think anyone will ever turn him into a great player.

Toure will go and that frees up a huge wage to dangle to someone else!

Bony will go if we can find a taker. Another that will no doubt cost us in low transfer fee and subsidised wages.

The midfield could be totally revamped I think.
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Everyone of your points made sense, overall i agree with you.
But i am pretty sure that Pep will get rid of Bony from day one.
Same goes for Navas, as i don't expect Pep to bare the ordeal of being frustrated constantly by Jesus' one dimensional game and poor end-product.
 
VOOMER said:
No one has improved under Pellers, that's his legacy.
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Clichy, Sagna, Mangala, Joe Hart, Fernando, Fernandihno, Kelechi, Garcia before he left, Demichelis before he got too old, Yaya's 20 goal explosion, Aguero - scored more goals every season under Pelegrini than under Mancini and often playing fewer games., except for the year when he played only 22 games. Still banged in 17 though, unlike the 12 goals in 33 games under Mancini.


But let's ignore the facts and we can all pretend you are right :-)
 
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