Will injuries cost us?

What baffles me is why are we always getting the same two injuries over and over ie: Hamstrings and calf, is the warm up a problem or not being done properly ?

The club should be looking for a specialist in muscle injuries , ive no doubt our medical team are competent , but surely there is some one in the sports injury world who specialises in hammys and calfs , groins etc. , it could be worth 12-15 points a season
 
The club should be looking for a specialist in muscle injuries , ive no doubt our medical team are competent , but surely there is some one in the sports injury world who specialises in hammys and calfs , groins etc. , it could be worth 12-15 points a season


I would imagine we already do and use them. I can't believe a club involved in a multi million pound industry would not have already looked at this.

It's just one of those things. Most of the injuries happen away from our training ground while players are away on international duty.
 
in all honesty pellegrini as spent enough money to be making a good enough squad to cope with injuries but some of the so called back up players simply aren't good enough,for instance Mangala coming in for vinny is huge difference and bony coming in for Sergio well most fans would rather see one of our academy come in to replace him than bony
 
It was a strong side but its not a weak excuse when you compare one clubs list with ours. We have had injuries to our best striker, our best midfielder, our best defender now our best goalie and the latter apart (as we don't know timescales) they have all been lengthy absences ie not just a game or two. I hope to god Hart ain't gonna be out ages, Cabbalero is a clown

Those players have been injury prone for a while, apart from Joe. Pellegrini and Tixxi have spent millions on backup players and failed.
 
So you think our results have suffered when, say, Aguero hasn't started?

When did I say that? I said it wasn't an excuse to blame poor results on injuries, as we have a great squad and should cope better.

You may have noticed a certain Leo Messi has been missing for a while, Barca seem to have coped OK without him.
 
When did I say that? I said it wasn't an excuse to blame poor results on injuries, as we have a great squad and should cope better.

You may have noticed a certain Leo Messi has been missing for a while, Barca seem to have coped OK without him.

Fair enough. I thought you were implying something else.
 
this is a very hard qu to answer - how can you even tell what would have happened if you had those players available?

perhaps the 'weakened' XI you put out that draws at Villa played better than a full strength might have done?

my point is, there are no 'control' matches in football, only what comes before and what comes next. Form and psychology have far too much influence to ever really know.

You can definitely see long term trends; like Kompany being out seems to make central defence a bit wobblier or Silva out means we arent quite as creative up top.

But you have to remember, the period of Jan 2015 when we struggled and the period the season before, Aguero, Kompany and Silva were all fit for pretty much all of it. (in fact the period Aguero was out in Dec and early Jan last season we won nearly every game!)

It's hard to disagree that if you simply removed Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Fernandinho and Hart for a 6 month period, we'd probably be worse off, but then again there is absolutely no way of knowing how the squad would react!
 
I think in the main the reason why people say we would have won this game or that game if so and so was available or if so and so didn't start is that it makes them feel their view on players is justified.

Truth is you just don't know and it makes for a comment but that is all.

You would rarely have someone on this forum say we would have lost this game if we had VK or Silva available that we won without them.
 
We tend to struggle against the 'top' teams when we are missing our 'top' players. I think with Silva and Aguero in the team, we'd have beaten Utd, wouldn't have lost against Spurs and pissed all over Villa.

I'm sure you are right, but the point is why we have the equally injury prone Nasri as backup for Silva? Why just Bony as a striker? Why Demi is still on the books and why Navas has not been replaced or Toure moved on? Why Mangala was signed at all.

For the amount of money we have spent we have a worrying lack of robust strength in depth to show for it. Not to mention nothing yet to show for the Academy in squad terms bar one player Pellers doesn't trust any way.

So yes, in one sense of course injuries are hitting our chances, but in a wider sense they illustrate a worrying weakness in squad management and transfer policy.
 
I still think we'll win the league, so in that sense, no they won't cost us.

But I think we'd have walked it without such a dire injury situation. You can't take the 3 or 4 (or 5) of the best 5 players out of any side and expect them to be unaffected. Our defence has been unsettled and frankly, shambolic. Our midfield without Silva is never ever going to create as much (and Nasri, to a lesser extent). And our attack without Aguero is about 80% down on its effectiveness with him playing. Lethal with him playing, and on form. Damp squib without.
 
this is a very hard qu to answer - how can you even tell what would have happened if you had those players available?

perhaps the 'weakened' XI you put out that draws at Villa played better than a full strength might have done?

my point is, there are no 'control' matches in football, only what comes before and what comes next. Form and psychology have far too much influence to ever really know.

You can definitely see long term trends; like Kompany being out seems to make central defence a bit wobblier or Silva out means we arent quite as creative up top.

But you have to remember, the period of Jan 2015 when we struggled and the period the season before, Aguero, Kompany and Silva were all fit for pretty much all of it. (in fact the period Aguero was out in Dec and early Jan last season we won nearly every game!)

It's hard to disagree that if you simply removed Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Fernandinho and Hart for a 6 month period, we'd probably be worse off, but then again there is absolutely no way of knowing how the squad would react!

Nice post.

Aguero is an interesting one. You rightly point out that Aguero missing in that spell last year didn't have much bearing on the actual result. I've looked a bit deeper at this and the last time we lost a league game he didn't start since Pelle has been here was back in 13/14 against Chelsea at home in the Mourhino "masterclass" game. Our record in all other Premier League games he hasn't started in 13/14, 14/15 and 15/16 is 17 wins and 4 draws. I was staggered when I saw that stat. The conclusion is, in pure result terms, we have done amzingly well when he hasn't started. In Champions League games over the same period he hasn't started 5 times - we've won 4 of those games and the only loss was one against Barcelona.

Kompany is an interesting one as well. Clearly this season we have had some pretty shit resuts when he hasn't started. Last season was compeletely the opposite. As far as results were concerned we didn't lose one single game when he didn't start in the league or champions league. In the league it was W10 D3 L0 and it was just the win in Roma he didn't start.

I've got more of this shit if interested. Got to go out now...
 
Thing is, you've got to think of players together, and the synergy between them that makes them add up to so very much more than the sum of their parts. It's not Sergio + KDB, it's Sergio with KDB. Or Merlin with Sterling, Merlin with KDB. Same at the back: Vinny with Otamendi in that beautiful understanding that they were building, and for the first five games of the season, Vinny with Mangala. Mangala looked utterly steady, utterly calm in those games (which now seem like a lifetime ago…)
There isn't the slightest doubt in my mind that these injuries have hurt us. How could they not? These are world class players we're talking about, players who would walk into literally any club side in Europe. I believe we would still be five or six points clear at this point — as we were after the initial five games. Clearly, Zab's and Clichy's injuries haven't hurt us nearly as much. Although I can't help feeling that, after Vinny, Zab is the other natural leader in the team, and could have helped steady the ship in that respect. If these players can stay more or less fit through the rest of the season, I still think we'll win it, and we could go on to quarter final/semi-final stage in the CL. If any or all of them have a relapse — talking four or more weeks back out — well then, honestly, I think we're looking at a top three finish and maybe one of the domestic cups as a reasonable target. Not more than that.
 
Of course it will just like any other team with top players. Its cost Arsenal for the past few seasons. Losing the likes of Silva, Nasri, Vinny, Sergio, Clichy and Zab for long periods has been awful for Pellergrini and who's to say they won't keep picking up injuries before the season ends.
 
Of course it will just like any other team with top players. Its cost Arsenal for the past few seasons. Losing the likes of Silva, Nasri, Vinny, Sergio, Clichy and Zab for long periods has been awful for Pellergrini and who's to say they won't keep picking up injuries before the season ends.

Cech, Ozil and Sanchez have stayed fit and they're their best players. If they were out for a few months each they'd struggle.

Chelsea last season barely had a single injury all season.

Go through our best team:
Hart - injured now
Zabaleta - barely played all season
Kompany - in and out all the time
Otamendi - has been okay so far but Mangala is now injured which forces MDM to play.
Clichy - been injured most of the season
Toure - a few niggles
Fernandinho - mostly been okay but Delph mostly injured and Fernando injured for periods so no chance of a rest
Silva - injured for ages and same with Nasri
De Bruyne - been okay but no chance of a rest because of above injuries
Sterling - same with De Bruyne
Aguero - always injured and then his back up gets injured

What do people seriously expect with a ludicrous injury list like that? The Premier League might not have great teams at the top of the league but there's few easy games. Southampton are going to strong and competitive tomorrow whereas we've got stacks of injuries and coming off a tough game in Turin on Wednesday. It's not easy. It's not the Bundesliga where Bayern can win every week.
 
I'm sure you are right, but the point is why we have the equally injury prone Nasri as backup for Silva? Why just Bony as a striker? Why Demi is still on the books and why Navas has not been replaced or Toure moved on? Why Mangala was signed at all.

For the amount of money we have spent we have a worrying lack of robust strength in depth to show for it. Not to mention nothing yet to show for the Academy in squad terms bar one player Pellers doesn't trust any way.

So yes, in one sense of course injuries are hitting our chances, but in a wider sense they illustrate a worrying weakness in squad management and transfer policy.
We have spent a shit load of money without really making ourselves any stronger than we were 2 or 3 seasons ago. Part of our problem is that when we spend £30m on a player, we don't actually get a £30m player. Instead we might get a £15m or a £20m player who will still be a good player, but perhaps not as good as his fee should suggest. Take Sterling for example. He's not a £50m player because his overall price is supposed to cover an almost unlimited amount of potential. The actual value of his current ability might only be akin to us signing a £10m player. It sounds harsh but when you look at the quality that other teams have signed for relatively small fees over the last few seasons like Payat, Wijnaldum, Delefeou etc it sort of makes sense.

That aside, I sometimes don't understand our policy. Under a transfer restriction we still spent almost £8m on a 32 year old back up keeper who frankly isn't very good. On top of that he takes up a foreign space. Surely we could have looked at an English keeper or even someone like Zieler at Hanover who is the German number 2/3, counts as British home grown, would only have been in his early 20's and supposedly had a release clause in his contract if around £5m.

We binned off Nastasic even though he didn't do too much wrong. Savic and Boateng have also gone on to be very good players elsewhere. We have loaned out Denayer after supposedly promising him games, and tried to loan out Mangala - a player who cost anywhere between £24m - £42m.

We refused to pay De Jong what he wanted yet wasted about £30m plus God knows what else in signing on fees, wages and agent fees in trying to replace him with Garcia and Fernando. Neither are anywhere near as good as he was.

We also don't and haven't for the last 5 years had the depth of squad which allows us to successfully play the same style of football once injuries strike. Instead we have almost tried to cover almost every feasible playing style within our squad, yet still try and maintain the exact same style of play regardless of which players are available. Opting to play slow possession based football against Europe's elite with players like Lescott, Kolarov, Fernando, Milner etc. All good players but not really suited to that style or football.

We have also known about Kompany's, Aguero's and Silva's physical frailty given they have all missed chunks of a season repeatedly so the fact that we still struggle so much without them suggests that while we have spent a lot of money we haven't really done our job when it comes to squad building.
 

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