Winston Churchill

[Saddleworth2]

Imperialist yes, white supremacist maybe not. He certainly was at some point in his life but people change and mellow. Many in Victorian Britain were but I certainly don’t think he was later in life.

The problem with history is people look at someone like Churchill, they take one or two quotes from a lifetime of public service and two stints as PM, one during the worst era the country has faced in centuries... and they stroke their black and white brush across him and make unfair accusations.

I hate using copied internet terms like describing him as a white supremacist, which is used now because people have heard others say it, like “war criminal” for Blair darkens every comments section of any video he’s in... however I am going to use one myself... Churchill was deeply flawed as a man but ultimately is a national hero for stopping something much much worse than anything he could have been capable of.

The modern social justice movement really need a grasp on historical context and what life was like back then. They often apply today’s standards to people like Attila the Hun and are gobsmacked when he’s not organising gay rights marches.

A great deal of truth in that post mate. Context is so important.

 

[urban genie]

Whoever moved this from the other older thread that was bumped for the OP to comment to create a new one has removed half the context of the previous discussion, where churchill was praised and given a fair assesment alongside other comments on his charactor and beliefs.

I wasn't gonna retype what was there when originally commenting today as already done on wjat was previous pages, but now this skews the whole topic to make it look like a churchill bashing thread.

As said context is key

 

[Ban-jani]

The proud boys are a white supremarcist group in every bit the sense of thier forebarers such as the KKK.

Trump may back them but they are not a product of him, but emboldened by his presidential win and became mpre openly more than just a group on McInnes message boards.


As for labeling, I label what I see not what the internet says, I call racist racist and cranks cranks.

I don't label anyone just those that blatantly are, must be because I am from the so labeled Gen X ;-)

Proud Boys to me look like a Trump groupie bunch haha.

I did see one of the founders on Joe Rogan though, he left when it got all political and they definitely at least, didn’t set out to be white supremacists, it was a drinking group originally, trying to get one of their mates laid, who was a virgin.

All quite silly stuff but not that dangerous.

I haven’t seen them recently so they may have changed but “Proud Boys” wasn’t similar to the KKK initially.

Is Gen X boomers? I always get confused.

Im a millennial so I should be a big soft cry baby, who’s offended at everything, according to the stereotype.

 

[BobKowalski]

Imperialist yes, white supremacist maybe not. He certainly was at some point in his life but people change and mellow. Many in Victorian Britain were but I certainly don’t think he was later in life.

The problem with history is people look at someone like Churchill, they take one or two quotes from a lifetime of public service and two stints as PM, one during the worst era the country has faced in centuries... and they stroke their black and white brush across him and make unfair accusations.

I hate using copied internet terms like describing him as a white supremacist, which is used now because people have heard others say it, like “war criminal” for Blair darkens every comments section of any video he’s in... however I am going to use one myself... Churchill was deeply flawed as a man but ultimately is a national hero for stopping something much much worse than anything he could have been capable of.

The modern social justice movement really need a grasp on historical context and what life was like back then. They often apply today’s standards to people like Attila the Hun and are gobsmacked when he’s not organising gay rights marches.

To be fair to Atilla, homosexuality in his time was not seen as a negative, the Greeks encouraged male lovers to fight alongside each other in battle, sex between men was considered purer and more noble than between men and women, Roman leaders took young male lovers, it was even rumoured that Attila was gay. Lots of famous military leaders were either gay or had male lovers. Frederick the Great was gay.

It’s likely even young Winston partook himself, if I recall he was charged with acts of gross lewdness while at Sandhurst.

 

[Ban-jani]

To be fair to Atilla, homosexuality in his time was not seen as a negative, the Greeks encouraged male lovers to fight alongside each other in battle, sex between men was considered purer and more noble than between men and women, Roman leaders took young male lovers, it was even rumoured that Attila was gay. Lots of famous military leaders were either gay or had male lovers. Frederick the Great was gay.

It’s likely even young Winston partook himself, if I recall he was charged with acts of gross lewdness while at Sandhurst.

I never knew Atilla the “hun” was short for “honey”.

 

[urban genie]

Proud Boys to me look like a Trump groupie bunch haha.

I did see one of the founders on Joe Rogan though, he left when it got all political and they definitely at least, didn’t set out to be white supremacists, it was a drinking group originally, trying to get one of their mates laid, who was a virgin.

All quite silly stuff but not that dangerous.

I haven’t seen them recently so they may have changed but “Proud Boys” wasn’t similar to the KKK initially.

Is Gen X boomers? I always get confused.

Im a millennial so I should be a big soft cry baby, who’s offended at everything, according to the stereotype.

No boomer are before gen x.

Boomers started and caused the shit we live in by being in power in the 80s and 90s, Gen X suffered it growing up, Gen Y it became the normal, Gen Z are angry about it and everything else.


Millenials are Gen Y.



Oh and the proid boy are built on the premise of the white genocide conspiracy theory that has been about since the 90s

 

[Ban-jani]

No boomer are before gen x.

Boomers started and caused the shit we live in by being in power in the 80s and 90s, Gen X suffered it growing up, Gen Y it became the normal, Gen Z are angry about it and everything else.


Millenials are Gen Y.



Oh and the proid boy are built on the premise of the white genocide conspiracy theory that has been about since the 90s

Fair enough on generations.

Regarding PB, they weren’t built on anything but getting drunk.

They may have changed into a nationalist, racist movement but check out this...

 

[urban genie]

Fair enough on generations.

Regarding PB, they weren’t built on anything but getting drunk.

They may have changed into a nationalist, racist movement but check out this...

They were founded solely by Gavin McInnes as an white power chapter based in a belief on the white genocide theory and to defend the white male race.

He quit as leader, not because it was too political but because his presence was causing problems with upcoming court cases as he could swing opinion negatively because of his known racist and biggoted views.

He is still in the background.


But that is a trait of the far right, claim to be setting up sports/drinking clubs while all the time trying to recruit people to their warped cause.

Combat 18 and others used the same trick with football fans the 70s/80s over here

 

[Ban-jani]

They were founded solely by Gavin McInnes as an white power chapter based in a belief on the white genocide theory and to defend the white male race.

He quit as leader, not because it was too political but because his presence was causing problems with upcoming court cases as he could swing opinion negatively because of his known racist and biggoted views.

He is still in the background.


But that is a trait of the far right, claim to be setting up sports/drinking clubs while all the time trying to recruit people to their warped cause.

Combat 18 and others used the same trick with football fans the 70s/80s over here

Did you watch the video ?

 

[urban genie]

Did you watch the video ?

Yes and what because Cumia a man I wouldn't class as trustworthy says it was just a gag that got out of hand must be true.


McInnes is well known as a far right crank who has encouraged politican violence, bit twah he set up a group for a laugh to get some lad a shag.

Nothing in politics is innocent