Wolves thread 2019/20

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domalino said:
I don't understand the anger directed at Wolves for the letter. For a start it's completely false to say they asked for us to be banned from Europe. It's not true.

Second, and most importantly they are one of a couple of clubs who had a legitimate reason for asking for the ban to not be delayed by bureaucracy over a slow appeal.

They were in the middle of a fight for the CL places and for them, Sheffield United and Leicester, they might never get so close to the top 4 next season. A delay in the ban by 12 months could have changed the course of their history forever. The money and appeal of getting into Europe could be transformative, and it would have been bullshit if they'd finished 5th only for our ban to be delayed 12 months because CAS, UEFA and City couldn't organise a 3 day hearing and the 5th placed side next year (almost certainly one of the old top 4) to get it instead.

Not to mention knowing if they are in the CL in June would have been absolutely vital to planning for it next season as well.

The real dickheads are Liverpool, Burnley, Arsenal & Newcastle. They never had a legitimate reason for knowing if we were going to have a ban immediately or in 12 months time. It doesn't matter to them at all.

United and Chelsea are not far behind because they were always going to be in a similar position in 12 months anyway.
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Wolves and the other 8 DID sign up to a letter wanting the ban to be upheld if the appeal wasn't heard before the next season's Champions League. Them not knowing whether they are in the Champions League or not is no excuse. They should have contingency plans for all scenarios. There never was a legitimate reason for upholding the ban before the appeal was heard. They are conniving parasites I. E. they are as bad as the rest. If you want to believe otherwise that's your choice. I hope they go down and down like they did in the 80s.
 
Zabbasbeard said:
Wolves and the other 8 DID sign up to a letter wanting the ban to be upheld if the appeal wasn't heard before the next season's Champions League.
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They signed a letter asking that the ban was not overturned before the appeal was heard.

That is completely different to what you wrote about "trying to have us banned" - we already were banned.

And yes, there was every reason to uphold the ban before the appeal was heard, it would have been standard practice anyway, they just added their voice to it in case City or UEFA tried to push it back.
 
domalino said:
They signed a letter asking that the ban was not overturned before the appeal was heard.

That is completely different to what you wrote about "trying to have us banned" - we already were banned.

And yes, there was every reason to uphold the ban before the appeal was heard, it would have been standard practice anyway, they just added their voice to it in case City or UEFA tried to push it back.
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We were banned by UEFA but not even UEFA pushed for the ban to be implemented before the appeal process was completed. Wolves and 8 others did, yet you excuse that. There is no excuse for such low behaviour.
 
Zabbasbeard said:
We were banned by UEFA but not even UEFA pushed for the ban to be implemented before the appeal process was completed. Wolves and 8 others did, yet you excuse that. There is no excuse for such low behaviour.
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Sorry but you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

UEFA banned us for the 20/21 and 21/22 seasons. That ban was in place from the moment they gave it to us and before the appeal started.

Wolves (and others) wanted to make sure the appeal was concluded so that if we lost, we were banned for 20/21 and 21/22, and not 21/22 and 22/23 because UEFA and City asked CAS to suspend the ban pending appeal - which was an option on the table.

In the end neither us nor UEFA asked for the ban to be suspended, so it was a moot point.
 
domalino said:
Sorry but you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

UEFA banned us for the 20/21 and 21/22 seasons. That ban was in place from the moment they gave it to us and before the appeal started.
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The moment you start being abusive is the moment that I don't engage with you further. I know plenty about this subject and have followed it closely. You know nothing about me. I'm done with you.
 
Zabbasbeard said:
The moment you start bring abusive is the moment that I don't engage with you further. I know plenty about this subject and have followed it closely. You know nothing about me. I'm done with you.
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Quite clearly you don't know plenty about the subject because you think the ban wasn't in place before the appeal.

not even UEFA pushed for the ban to be implemented before the appeal process was completed
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This line is a completely and utterly incorrect.
 
The point is surely about due process. We received a ban and appealed. Normal procedure would allow us to ask for suspension of the ban. The hateful eight/nincompoop nine were, in effect, urging that our rights be removed.
The twitterati and the rest of the media claimed we were trying to slow down the appeal and they assumed we had asked for suspension of the ban. Neither was true. Indeed we wanted the appeal heard quickly. Not one of those clubs had seen our evidence. Truly vindictive and stupid.
 
KS55 said:
The point is surely about due process. We received a ban and appealed. Normal procedure would allow us to ask for suspension of the ban. The hateful eight/nincompoop nine were, in effect, urging that our rights be removed.
The twitterati and the rest of the media claimed we were trying to slow down the appeal and they assumed we had asked for suspension of the ban. Neither was true. Indeed we wanted the appeal heard quickly. Not one of those clubs had seen our evidence. Truly vindictive and stupid.
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Exactly. Nobody at City wanted the Appeal hearing to be delayed. There is no excuse whatsoever for those 9 clubs petitioning to take away those rights.
 
domalino said:
They signed a letter asking that the ban was not overturned before the appeal was heard.

That is completely different to what you wrote about "trying to have us banned" - we already were banned.

And yes, there was every reason to uphold the ban before the appeal was heard, it would have been standard practice anyway, they just added their voice to it in case City or UEFA tried to push it back.
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I agree with you - Wolves had an interest in freeing a CL place for next season. It seems reasonable to request that the ban occur in a timely fashion.

The only side who were safe and signed were Liverpool.
 
KS55 said:
The point is surely about due process. We received a ban and appealed. Normal procedure would allow us to ask for suspension of the ban. The hateful eight/nincompoop nine were, in effect, urging that our rights be removed.
The twitterati and the rest of the media claimed we were trying to slow down the appeal and they assumed we had asked for suspension of the ban. Neither was true. Indeed we wanted the appeal heard quickly. Not one of those clubs had seen our evidence. Truly vindictive and stupid.
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Due Process is not suspending a ban until the appeal. If you get convicted of a crime, they don't just let you walk around scott-free until your appeals process is exhausted.

That's why CAS only suspend punishment before appeals after special requests where you have to argue that there is irreparable damage being done by the punishment being in place until the appeal is held - and that's weighed against irreparable damage being done to others if the punishment is lifted and the appeal is unsuccessful.

Wolves, Sheffield United and to a lesser extent Leicester, all had a really good case that if CAS had decided to suspend the ban pending the outcome of the appeal and the ban had been upheld, resulting in a 21/22 and 22/23 ban, it would have done them irreparable damage.
 
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domalino said:
Due Process is not suspending a ban until the appeal.

If you get convicted of a crime, they don't just let you walk around scott-free until your appeals process is exhausted.
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It was FIFA, but didn't Chelsea have their ban cut part way through on appeal?
I guess that was the thought - that the ban might be halved.
 
domalino said:
Due Process is not suspending a ban until the appeal. If you get convicted of a crime, they don't just let you walk around scott-free until your appeals process is exhausted.

That's why CAS only suspend punishment before appeals after special requests where you have to argue that there is irreparable damage being done by the punishment being in place until the appeal is held - and that's weighed against irreparable damage being done to others if the punishment is lifted and the appeal is unsuccessful.

Wolves, Sheffield United and to a lesser extent Leicester, all had a really good case that if CAS had decided to suspend the ban pending the outcome of the appeal and the ban had been upheld, resulting in a 21/22 and 22/23 ban, it would have done them irreparable damage.
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Nice try, but I don't buy it.
1. If the rules allow a certain course of action, that is due process.
2. Sentence suspended and bail pending an appeal is within the judge's remit and is sometimes granted. More so in US than here. Cas case was not criminal.
3 Those clubs did not risk irreparable damage. If that were so, they would be suffering that damage now. Opportunity cost only.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
I agree with you - Wolves had an interest in freeing a CL place for next season. It seems reasonable to request that the ban occur in a timely fashion.

The only side who were safe and signed were Liverpool.
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One would have to be pretty naive to think that we (or anyone really) wouldn't have taken exactly the same position if in their shoes. It really can't be overstated how big of a deal being in the Champion's League would've been for their club and how it would impact recruitment, finances, everything. They needed an answer. For anyone within shouting distance of fifth place it was a very reasonable request and this stuff about due process is nonsense.
 
cjn said:
One would have to be pretty naive to think that we (or anyone really) wouldn't have taken exactly the same position if in their shoes. It really can't be overstated how big of a deal being in the Champion's League would've been for their club and how it would impact recruitment, finances, everything. They needed an answer. For anyone within shouting distance of fifth place it was a very reasonable request and this stuff about due process is nonsense.
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Yes, big business is rarely 'nice' - similarly, the club will be behind FFP in principle.
 
cjn said:
One would have to be pretty naive to think that we (or anyone really) wouldn't have taken exactly the same position if in their shoes. It really can't be overstated how big of a deal being in the Champion's League would've been for their club and how it would impact recruitment, finances, everything. They needed an answer. For anyone within shouting distance of fifth place it was a very reasonable request and this stuff about due process is nonsense.
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I could never envisage our owners signing that letter, but you think differently and that's what this forum is all about.
 
Rosler's Mullet said:
I like to think that too, personally, I'd have been disappointed if we had.
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I'd be disgusted and embarrassed if our club signed a letter like that. Sheff United didn't and they were in with a very good chance of European football for the first time in their history.
 
Rosler's Mullet said:
I like to think that too, personally, I'd have been disappointed if we had.
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In reality if the situation was reversed, I reckon we would have been Arsenal (the instigators) in the situation, and not Wolves, who just went along with it. Naive to think otherwise in my opinion.
 
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