Dave S
Well-Known Member
Correct.
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World Cup VAR
- Thread starter stonerblue
- Start date
I thought opposition players were not allowed to call for VAR, but it seemed yesterday, that is exactly what happened. That decision would not have gone to VAR if if wasn't for the French players protests.
FWIW I didn't think it was a deliberate handball, and it didn't really change the trajectory of the ball; it would have still gone out of play.
If we are going to let players dictate the VAR, then it instantly opens up another avenue for cheating, i.e. disrupting the flow of the game on purpose to gain an advantage.
The players didn’t persuade the Ref to review it. The guys in the VAR room told him that he may have missed something which he needed to review. If they hadn’t told him the game would have carried on
Trevor Morley's Tache
Well-Known Member
And all that happened after the French players protested.The players didn’t persuade the Ref to review it. The guys in the VAR room told him that he may have missed something which he needed to review. If they hadn’t told him the game would have carried on
I standby my original statement that the French players influenced the decision to go to VAR, either through the on field referee or the VAR himself. If the French players hadn't protested that penalty wouldn't have happened.
This is a point I made after the group games. A lot of teams have been acting up and manipulating the very existence of VAR. The nonsense at corners was about challenging the refs to give a penalty and card two or three at the same time. I've never seen such blatant holding. It was anarchy. The coaches, players and ultimately national associations are to blame for this sort of nonsense. France clearly blagged it. The free kick for the first goal was not a foul and there was a probable offside but Croatia should have made a big fuss about it until it went to VAR. That's what France did later. So they got two goals that they didn't deserve and today they're world champions. The free kick was a more obvious mistake than the penalty. That game proved the need for VAR to operate solely on appeal. Referees should not give any decision at all if they have any doubt. As others have pointed out, the very need to review the incident so many times should have stopped the award of a penalty as there was clearly some considerable doubt there and he was ultimately guessing.
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I think on the whole, the VAR we saw in the world cup was a vast improvement on what we saw when it was trialed over here. I think it's worth sticking with.
I do wonder though if the whole "clear and obvious" thing is making things less clear though. It's a very arbitrary measure to use as a way of deciding when we should look at things. Once the referee has been called to look at it, i'd rather he just give what he believes to be is the correct decision rather than it have to have been an "obvious mistake".
It also puts quite a bit of pressure on the referee because essentially he's been told "you've made a clear and obvious mistake here" rather than "you might want to look at this again and use your own judgement". I got the feeling that the referee was looking at it for so long yesterday because he was trying to find something in there that would convince him it was a penalty. Once he's been told to review it he knows that everyone upstairs thinks he's got it clearly and obviously wrong wrong. I imagine he was watching the video back and thinking to himself "why the fuck have they called me back for this? They've put me in a right pickle here when they easily could have let it go."
I do wonder though if the whole "clear and obvious" thing is making things less clear though. It's a very arbitrary measure to use as a way of deciding when we should look at things. Once the referee has been called to look at it, i'd rather he just give what he believes to be is the correct decision rather than it have to have been an "obvious mistake".
It also puts quite a bit of pressure on the referee because essentially he's been told "you've made a clear and obvious mistake here" rather than "you might want to look at this again and use your own judgement". I got the feeling that the referee was looking at it for so long yesterday because he was trying to find something in there that would convince him it was a penalty. Once he's been told to review it he knows that everyone upstairs thinks he's got it clearly and obviously wrong wrong. I imagine he was watching the video back and thinking to himself "why the fuck have they called me back for this? They've put me in a right pickle here when they easily could have let it go."
I thought opposition players were not allowed to call for VAR, but it seemed yesterday, that is exactly what happened. That decision would not have gone to VAR if if wasn't for the French players protests.
FWIW I didn't think it was a deliberate handball, and it didn't really change the trajectory of the ball; it would have still gone out of play.
If we are going to let players dictate the VAR, then it instantly opens up another avenue for cheating, i.e. disrupting the flow of the game on purpose to gain an advantage.
I was accused of being blind yesterday when i said the ball didn't come off a French players head just before (which it still didn't) so forgive me for questioning this but "it didn't change the trajectory of the ball"? Are you serious, it was going across the face of the goal. His movement (out of a natural position) hit it out of play instead.
Dubai Blue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 23 Jul 2007
- Messages
- 15,241
That's exactly the problem I saw with yesterday's incident too. As soon as the VAR guys told him to go and review it, the only possible outcome was a penalty because:It also puts quite a bit of pressure on the referee because essentially he's been told "you've made a clear and obvious mistake here" rather than "you might want to look at this again and use your own judgement". I got the feeling that the referee was looking at it for so long yesterday because he was trying to find something in there that would convince him it was a penalty. Once he's been told to review it he knows that everyone upstairs thinks he's got it clearly and obviously wrong wrong. I imagine he was watching the video back and thinking to himself "why the fuck have they called me back for this? They've put me in a right pickle here when they easily could have let it go."
a). the VAR team obviously thought it was one, and
b). the ball did actually hit his hand.
It's been repeated on here over and over again, but this shows why a challenge system is the only way VAR can work properly. Let the players tell the ref they think he's got something wrong, not his colleagues.
quiet_riot
Well-Known Member
I was accused of being blind yesterday when i said the ball didn't come off a French players head just before (which it still didn't) .
Yes, yes it did.
Yes, yes it did.
After watching it again, with commentary that says and I quote “the French attacker missed the header” I’m confident in saying there was no contact
quiet_riot
Well-Known Member
After watching it again, with commentary that says and I quote “the French attacker missed the header” I’m confident in saying there was no contact
So the spin of the ball changed slightly due to what? The heat coming off Matuidi's head?