World Cup VAR

It seems to me that the biggest part of the problem is with the handball rule.

IT HAS TO BE DELIBERATE

Agreed, it's hard to tell, but you can't go around giving pens, 'overruling yourself' and taking 5 mins to make a (wrong) decision.

It's shite and yet another tool for corruption.
 
True but yesterday he was waving his arms about in the box and then seemed shocked it hit his hand.
Ref completely missed it, var gave it. I'm happy with that
 
VAR gave the opportunity for the Ref to have a clear look at different angles. What hope do Refs have before VAR ??! just blindly guessing.
He got a proper review and saw it as a penalty (I thought it was aswell - he blocked ball coming across 6 yard area more instinctively than purposely)

Overall, major success. This World Cup will be remembered as one of the best ever and VAR has only enhanced the entertainment, amazing how many penalty’s would have previously been missed - also will never forget Naymer embarrassing dive against Japan and the ref reviewing the penalty and seeing it wasn’t. Thank f*ck for VAR I say.
 
quiet_riot said:
It seems to me that the biggest part of the problem is with the handball rule.

IT HAS TO BE DELIBERATE

Agreed, it's hard to tell, but you can't go around giving pens, 'overruling yourself' and taking 5 mins to make a (wrong) decision.

It's shite and yet another tool for corruption.
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Hackett makes a good point in today's DT. He suggests that watching handball in slo-mo makes it appear worse than it is. Handball needs to be watch in real time, several times, from different angles. The fact that the Argie ref had a couple of looks makes me think that he wasn't 100%. But if yer following FICKFUFA instructions . . . . . . . . .!

I wanted VAR from the outset, many seasons ago, because I had seen enough matches where teams were walking off with points to which they had no entitlement. Refs got it serially and seriously wrong. And there were bigger howlers than Lloris could ever come up with! But to see a World Cup Final decided, incorrectly, by using a system that should be foolproof, makes it clear that this sport has not moved on one jot.
 
Given that the ref took an age to give the penalty it is obvious that he wasn't sure whether or not it was a clear and obvious error he had made. In rugby certain clashes in slo mo look a lot worse than in real time hence why the refs look at it from all angels in real time as well as slo mo. This ref only appeared to look at the slo mo replays - did he not see the flick from Matuidi. If Perisic had deliberately handled the ball following a flick then given he was less than a yard away he must have the quickest reflexes in the world. Never should have been a penalty and never should in the future be a penalty. VAR is surely to be used in instances where refs give penalties when they think it is handball but in actual fact has hit someone's back outside the box. VAR has show to be pretty useless when a certain decision is wanted.
 
Eds said:
Given that the ref took an age to give the penalty it is obvious that he wasn't sure whether or not it was a clear and obvious error he had made. In rugby certain clashes in slo mo look a lot worse than in real time hence why the refs look at it from all angels in real time as well as slo mo. This ref only appeared to look at the slo mo replays - did he not see the flick from Matuidi. If Perisic had deliberately handled the ball following a flick then given he was less than a yard away he must have the quickest reflexes in the world. Never should have been a penalty and never should in the future be a penalty. VAR is surely to be used in instances where refs give penalties when they think it is handball but in actual fact has hit someone's back outside the box. VAR has show to be pretty useless when a certain decision is wanted.
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how is that VAR fault ?

all VAR does is give the ref an opportunity to review a decision if he is not sure. he checked the monitor, rather than guessing !! and concluded it was a handball - i agree with him
 
CharliesRightPeg said:
True but yesterday he was waving his arms about in the box and then seemed shocked it hit his hand.
Ref completely missed it, var gave it. I'm happy with that
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I thought opposition players were not allowed to call for VAR, but it seemed yesterday, that is exactly what happened. That decision would not have gone to VAR if if wasn't for the French players protests.

FWIW I didn't think it was a deliberate handball, and it didn't really change the trajectory of the ball; it would have still gone out of play.

If we are going to let players dictate the VAR, then it instantly opens up another avenue for cheating, i.e. disrupting the flow of the game on purpose to gain an advantage.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
I thought opposition players were not allowed to call for VAR, but it seemed yesterday, that is exactly what happened. That decision would not have gone to VAR if if wasn't for the French players protests.

FWIW I didn't think it was a deliberate handball, and it didn't really change the trajectory of the ball; it would have still gone out of play.

If we are going to let players dictate the VAR, then it instantly opens up another avenue for cheating, i.e. disrupting the flow of the game on purpose to gain an advantage.
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Correct.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
I thought opposition players were not allowed to call for VAR, but it seemed yesterday, that is exactly what happened. That decision would not have gone to VAR if if wasn't for the French players protests.

FWIW I didn't think it was a deliberate handball, and it didn't really change the trajectory of the ball; it would have still gone out of play.

If we are going to let players dictate the VAR, then it instantly opens up another avenue for cheating, i.e. disrupting the flow of the game on purpose to gain an advantage.
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The players didn’t persuade the Ref to review it. The guys in the VAR room told him that he may have missed something which he needed to review. If they hadn’t told him the game would have carried on
 
chaddblue said:
The players didn’t persuade the Ref to review it. The guys in the VAR room told him that he may have missed something which he needed to review. If they hadn’t told him the game would have carried on
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And all that happened after the French players protested.

I standby my original statement that the French players influenced the decision to go to VAR, either through the on field referee or the VAR himself. If the French players hadn't protested that penalty wouldn't have happened.
 
This is a point I made after the group games. A lot of teams have been acting up and manipulating the very existence of VAR. The nonsense at corners was about challenging the refs to give a penalty and card two or three at the same time. I've never seen such blatant holding. It was anarchy. The coaches, players and ultimately national associations are to blame for this sort of nonsense. France clearly blagged it. The free kick for the first goal was not a foul and there was a probable offside but Croatia should have made a big fuss about it until it went to VAR. That's what France did later. So they got two goals that they didn't deserve and today they're world champions. The free kick was a more obvious mistake than the penalty. That game proved the need for VAR to operate solely on appeal. Referees should not give any decision at all if they have any doubt. As others have pointed out, the very need to review the incident so many times should have stopped the award of a penalty as there was clearly some considerable doubt there and he was ultimately guessing.
 
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I think on the whole, the VAR we saw in the world cup was a vast improvement on what we saw when it was trialed over here. I think it's worth sticking with.

I do wonder though if the whole "clear and obvious" thing is making things less clear though. It's a very arbitrary measure to use as a way of deciding when we should look at things. Once the referee has been called to look at it, i'd rather he just give what he believes to be is the correct decision rather than it have to have been an "obvious mistake".

It also puts quite a bit of pressure on the referee because essentially he's been told "you've made a clear and obvious mistake here" rather than "you might want to look at this again and use your own judgement". I got the feeling that the referee was looking at it for so long yesterday because he was trying to find something in there that would convince him it was a penalty. Once he's been told to review it he knows that everyone upstairs thinks he's got it clearly and obviously wrong wrong. I imagine he was watching the video back and thinking to himself "why the fuck have they called me back for this? They've put me in a right pickle here when they easily could have let it go."
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
I thought opposition players were not allowed to call for VAR, but it seemed yesterday, that is exactly what happened. That decision would not have gone to VAR if if wasn't for the French players protests.

FWIW I didn't think it was a deliberate handball, and it didn't really change the trajectory of the ball; it would have still gone out of play.

If we are going to let players dictate the VAR, then it instantly opens up another avenue for cheating, i.e. disrupting the flow of the game on purpose to gain an advantage.
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I was accused of being blind yesterday when i said the ball didn't come off a French players head just before (which it still didn't) so forgive me for questioning this but "it didn't change the trajectory of the ball"? Are you serious, it was going across the face of the goal. His movement (out of a natural position) hit it out of play instead.
 
Mon Autre said:
It also puts quite a bit of pressure on the referee because essentially he's been told "you've made a clear and obvious mistake here" rather than "you might want to look at this again and use your own judgement". I got the feeling that the referee was looking at it for so long yesterday because he was trying to find something in there that would convince him it was a penalty. Once he's been told to review it he knows that everyone upstairs thinks he's got it clearly and obviously wrong wrong. I imagine he was watching the video back and thinking to himself "why the fuck have they called me back for this? They've put me in a right pickle here when they easily could have let it go."
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That's exactly the problem I saw with yesterday's incident too. As soon as the VAR guys told him to go and review it, the only possible outcome was a penalty because:
a). the VAR team obviously thought it was one, and
b). the ball did actually hit his hand.

It's been repeated on here over and over again, but this shows why a challenge system is the only way VAR can work properly. Let the players tell the ref they think he's got something wrong, not his colleagues.
 
Tom_mcfc said:
After watching it again, with commentary that says and I quote “the French attacker missed the header” I’m confident in saying there was no contact
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So the spin of the ball changed slightly due to what? The heat coming off Matuidi's head?
 
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