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World Cup VAR
- Thread starter stonerblue
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Crouchinho
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Great decision never a penalty. Ramos and Pique are doing as much grabbing as the other. Both went down like a tonne of bricks. Common sense prevailed
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Well I am non the wiser as the beeb has decided not to mention it in the after match spiel, which again is bloody odd if you ask me.
They have all decided we are having v.a.r.
sirrmattmoo
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People think that was a penalty? 50/50 at best. Never a foul. Var has been brilliant for the most part. I love it
What excuses will be rolled out today?
Stonewall penalty not given, most likely because it would have been against Russia.
Having thought it was a pen myself initially, I've seen it again and there all pulling each other (oh matron). Impossible for a ref or VAR to give it either way....
bavarian blue
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Yes, I got it wrong, they got it right .Fair play.Having thought it was a pen myself initially, I've seen it again and there all pulling each other (oh matron). Impossible for a ref or VAR to give it either way....
B
B
blueinsa
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Having thought it was a pen myself initially, I've seen it again and there all pulling each other (oh matron). Impossible for a ref or VAR to give it either way....
Not impossible at all, they chose not to give it because the host nation would have tumbled out.
My guess is it would have been given had it been up the other end no problem and especially when you look at decisions given so far in the competition.
He pulls his shirt in the box, its a foul and its a penalty and but for FIFA corruption it should have been given.
As soon as we get it certain sides will have similar decisions go their way at either end of the pitch as well....
Not impossible at all, they chose not to give it because the host nation would have tumbled out.
My guess is it would have been given had it been up the other end no problem and especially when you look at decisions given so far in the competition.
He pulls his shirt in the box, its a foul and its a penalty and but for FIFA corruption it should have been given.
As soon as we get it certain sides will have similar decisions go their way at either end of the pitch as well....
No, they were all pulling each other's shirts... correct decision not to give a pen
Manchester_lalala
Well-Known Member
Ha, the conspiracy theorists are all out in force today. VAR has proved to be major success this summer.
exiled-blue
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No, they were all pulling each other's shirts... correct decision not to give a pen
The fact not everyone on here agrees one way or the other says var probably right as not obvious error
You could make a justifiable argument any subjective decision is correct or incorrect if you were trying to prove a point one way or the other. I"d prefer to just see them as subjective decisions that I happen to agree or disagree with.
You don't even believe the 100% accuracy as you think they've got it right about 75%. So we're best off ignoring IFAB don't you think?
I never said it has favoured one team or another but if we believe your 75% correct decisions then one side will be disadvantaged.
And yes disadvantaged by VAR is worse because if the technology is there and it is being applied consistently it opens up a big fan of worms over who is making decisions and why.
It's your opinion that it's improving things 75%. For me that's unrealistic, and if we use video technology and still get 1 out of 4 major match changing decisions wrong then I think we need Togo back to the drawing board and work on a better system.
There's 2 different things at play here. Of the VAR reviews, they got 94% right. As confirmed by the IFAB. This is not subjective as such, the IFAB set the rules (no remit for VAR) so they are merely commentating on how accurate VAR is, against the rules they themselves set. They got the Iran penalty wrong....
Where the issues lie, is where VAR does and doesn't kick in. Argies non pen, Kane incident and Serbia non pen being 3 examples off the top of my head... plus some others... if we take the IFAB report I think there were 18 or 19 VAR decisions, 94% correct. But it missed several decisions, 5 or 6, so if you factor those in, you get around the 75% I mentioned previously. I think this is a fairer number in relation to how successful VAR's been, than the 94% quoted by the IFAB, which only takes into play those actual decisions referred... so yes I agree with you to a point, the IFAB report is useful, but doesn't tell the full story.
As for one team being diasadvantaged, I just don't agree. There's been no evidence of one team getting specifically harshly treated. Where it has missed decisions, it's been ad hoc and spread across various teams. Absoloutly no evidence it's been used to favour one team over another. If this did happen, then fair enough it would need addressing, but there's no evidence of this in the World Cup so far. And remember, VAR doesn't make the original decisions worse (Iran pen apart). If I was in charge of the game and could get 75% of incorrect decisions corrected, I'd be all for it.
I don't believe the 75% is unrealistic. Bit of a back of a fag packet analysis for sure, but it's around that for me. It's a vast improvement over the old system, even in its infancy and with the limitations it has. Needs further work for sure, but what other system gives you that much improvement that's available ...?? If you have a better idea, please share...
To go back to the old system, and get 75% approx more incorrect decisions is ludicrous for me....
Whose shirt was Pique pulling?
They will.
They'll give it Liverpool, rags, Bayern Munich & knock us out. Everyone will be delighted & v.a.r.
a great system.
Your describing the old system... you may well be right and that happens with VAR, but at least give it a chance first. It can't be any worse than the old corrupt system...
The fact not everyone on here agrees one way or the other says var probably right as not obvious error
Exactly.... I was in the pub first time around, thought it a pen, but slowed down they were all pulling each other's shirt. Ramos I think went down, which is fair enough, I'd probably do the same in the last few mins of extra time. But when you watch it back closely, to give a pen for that incident would have been hard to justify the way they were all grabbing each other
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Your describing the old system... you may well be right and that happens with VAR, but at least give it a chance first. It can't be any worse than the old corrupt system...
What would have been wrong with establshing all the rules, over several years & using it for pre season games & friendly internationals until all decisions were more or less consistent, plus trying different systems rather than one ?
It's almost as if they prefer a system which is open to future ambiguity & abuse.
But that would be calling FIFA/UEFA bent.
Hart of the Matter
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Having been a keen opponent of VAR fro the outset I have to say i agree with your post and conceed my point of view has shifted. I do, however still believe VAR is open to manipulation which i believe will happen. The vaunted appeal process appeals to me but still believe it will still lead to manipulation and inconsistent application of the term 'clear and obvious' (yes i believe the game is bent- any City fan who thinks otherwise needs to give their head a wobble).There's 2 different things at play here. Of the VAR reviews, they got 94% right. As confirmed by the IFAB. This is not subjective as such, the IFAB set the rules (no remit for VAR) so they are merely commentating on how accurate VAR is, against the rules they themselves set. They got the Iran penalty wrong....
Where the issues lie, is where VAR does and doesn't kick in. Argies non pen, Kane incident and Serbia non pen being 3 examples off the top of my head... plus some others... if we take the IFAB report I think there were 18 or 19 VAR decisions, 94% correct. But it missed several decisions, 5 or 6, so if you factor those in, you get around the 75% I mentioned previously. I think this is a fairer number in relation to how successful VAR's been, than the 94% quoted by the IFAB, which only takes into play those actual decisions referred... so yes I agree with you to a point, the IFAB report is useful, but doesn't tell the full story.
As for one team being diasadvantaged, I just don't agree. There's been no evidence of one team getting specifically harshly treated. Where it has missed decisions, it's been ad hoc and spread across various teams. Absoloutly no evidence it's been used to favour one team over another. If this did happen, then fair enough it would need addressing, but there's no evidence of this in the World Cup so far. And remember, VAR doesn't make the original decisions worse (Iran pen apart). If I was in charge of the game and could get 75% of incorrect decisions corrected, I'd be all for it.
I don't believe the 75% is unrealistic. Bit of a back of a fag packet analysis for sure, but it's around that for me. It's a vast improvement over the old system, even in its infancy and with the limitations it has. Needs further work for sure, but what other system gives you that much improvement that's available ...?? If you have a better idea, please share...
To go back to the old system, and get 75% approx more incorrect decisions is ludicrous for me....
Other than that i am happy to shift my point of view but will retain some scepticism.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Exactly.... I was in the pub first time around, thought it a pen, but slowed down they were all pulling each other's shirt. Ramos I think went down, which is fair enough, I'd probably do the same in the last few mins of extra time. But when you watch it back closely, to give a pen for that incident would have been hard to justify the way they were all grabbing each other
And Clattenburg said the exact opposite when it happened to England compared to today.
So there is direct evidence of a ref's viewpoint being biased.
The initial foul would have been the pen normally.
What would have been wrong with establshing all the rules, over several years & using it for pre season games & friendly internationals until all decisions were more or less consistent, plus trying different systems rather than one ?
It's almost as if they prefer a system which is open to future ambiguity & abuse.
But that would be calling FIFA/UEFA bent.
That's what's been done. But there's only so far, testing and class room learning will get you. The confederations cup and FA CUP being 2 trials, amongst others. They will help, but it's only when you roll it out fully, you can truly test it. You unfortunately have to let it cuts its teeth at the pit face at somepoint.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
That's what's been done. But there's only so far, testing and class room learning will get you. The confederations cup and FA CUP being 2 trials, amongst others. They will help, but it's only when you roll it out fully, you can truly test it. You unfortunately have to let it cuts its teeth at the pit face at somepoint.
They don't even know their own rules.
What they should be doing is shadowing every major game with a v.a.r. system & deciding 100% how each situation is interpreted.
The arguments on here for handball given & not given, holding given & not given etc etc are a fucking joke. They are too close to split. If Kane's is a pen so is Piquet today etc etc.
The ref & v.a.r. panel should have no doubt how to interpret it because they should be running simulations week in week out then getting the refs together & ordering them to follow that interpretation.
They could but they don't because imo they prefer to be able to control the outcome of football games. Which is why Liverpool got to the CL final & would get the same decisions with v a.r.
Having been a keen opponent of VAR fro the outset I have to say i agree with your post and conceed my point of view has shifted. I do, however still believe VAR is open to manipulation which i believe will happen. The vaunted appeal process appeals to me but still believe it will still lead to manipulation and inconsistent application of the term 'clear and obvious' (yes i believe the game is bent- any City fan who thinks otherwise needs to give their head a wobble).
Other than that i am happy to shift my point of view but will retain some scepticism.
I'm similar to you. I've seen enough to know the existing system is inept/corrupt.... I also concede, VAR could be manipulated, but it will much harder to do so under VAR, than the old system we have today. Especially if we get mic'd refs/VAR teams and referrals.... will it be perfect, unfortunately not. But it should be much fairer. to be honest having seen the old system in play for as long as I have, I'd try absoloutly anything to try and improve it...