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Discussion in 'EDS and Academy Forum' started by Cityfan1977, 22 Oct 2019.
You don't want Tommy Doyle to make it then ?
Of course I want tommy Doyle to make it.....a player who has a huge connection to the club.
I would think/ hope I made it clear what I meant. Ie more of a connection with local players, which I think most city fans have. Tommy Doyle is for all intensive purposes our version of gerrard or lampard.
we have had a very good youth set up for many years now and the record during that time is good but not good enough. We have competed at the top end of the leagues most of the time, done well in cups without winning them ( mainly down to Chelsea) and had some good moments in Europe but no consistency at all. In the last year or so we have made the decisions to promote younger players into the EDS rather than just playing the most experienced or arguably the "best " players. And for this to happen I think a lot more players have been sent on loan to get experience and football.
That's why we have Tommy Doyle as captain and he is just 18 and alongside Harwood Bellis and others who are also really young. That's a positive decision imo but it should possibly be expected that they would find it tough if they come against the cream of other academies who are often more experienced and almost always bigger and stronger. Neither of those points should mean we are struggling so much this season and for big parts of last season.
Looking at the game v Atalanta yesterday we started brightly and seemed to be the better side for a while even though you could see Atalanta were very positive in their aggressive ( not at all nasty)approach. We scored a good goal and were getting at them quite well and finding openings but bit by bit we seemed to lose our way. Then the lack of concentration and mistakes came in.
We allowed a very good player to get to the by line past a center back playing as a left back. ( I think that's what Ogbeta is) It looked like he had got back to him but didnt kick the ball out. Over came the low cut back and its one one. Second half its even stevens and a ball to Doyle in the D is terribly controlled, nicked off him and we are 2 one down. Then number 3 comes after Rogers fails to control a ball 30 yards out , again it's nicked and their number 10 ( super player) slaloms into the box evading challenges and rolls it in.
I thought it was 3 errors from young players so can the manager be blamed ? In some ways of course not but we do seem to lose games late on and lose any real control of games as time goes on which shows a real lack of game management which I would definitely put at the manager's door. There hasnt been a game this year where the oppos have been seriously better than us if better at all ( maybe Spurs away) but ther we are bottom of the league and staring at relegation.
I am sure it was argued when the promotion of youth happened that its not all about winning but more about development. That's clearly a fair point but performances and with that results need to be positive even if there is inconsistency. The same promotion of youth has of course happened at the 18's level so how are they doing? They play with a mixture but it includes a lot of first year players, 16 and 17 and they seem to be flourishing and top of the league with some great performances so far. Could that be down to the manager or are we just much better than the reast of the teams?
One 18's match springs to mind this season which was v Liverpool. The top 2 I think at the time and Liverpool came at us looking a very good well organised team and had us in all sorts of trouble. They pressed high , forced mistakes and were definitely the better team. Somehow though I think we were 2.1 up at half time. ( i could be wrong with that but I am losing my memory|)
Second half we really got it together, played great and battered them 5 .1 ( I hope that's right) Surely the manager got into them at half time and sorted stuff out. Every time we start to lose in it with the EDS we seem to really lose it and fold. I would add though v Liverpool we did have a player who took the game by the scruff of the neck to take us to the win with 2 goals and I think at least one assist. Liam Delap was superb.
I don't get any feeling that Harsley with the EDS is the man for the job but he has a chance to prove otherwise by getting the team to safety in the last 2/3rds of the season. I hope I am wrong so watch this space.
Good, and why I deliberately picked him, but these were your words....
So why "stop caring" ? and why not treat the academy for what it is, its a university for footballers, where they get the best football education (and also a good real education in case they don't make it), and a business where we bring in talent and bring it on, or create talent from local, like Phil Foden / Tommy Doyle / Harwood-Bellis.
The point was made that City don't (seem to) care about the EDS (academy), of course they do, but the first thing people need to realise is that we have world class players in our squad (more than enough to fill a first team squad, possibly 2), and therefore its very difficult to force a way into our first team from the academy, the club, and Pep regularly say this too.
We also play youngsters 2 or 3 years up from their own age group where considered good enough, so its little wonder they get beaten in games against kids at the right age group.
So when Phil gets time like last night, he has to take it (he did imho). Our academy is not just about bringing players to the first team, its now an important revenue stream, and I'd argue one that is very good at it like Sancho (also rumours that we might have got £22m for Diaz for instance). Its part of the business of the club, unlike when we were shit, when we developed players for a couple of seasons of "emerging into the first team", and then hoping they were good enough to keep us up, and loyal enough to want to stay, but not too good to have ambitions to be better than City.
At the end of the day, being the best EDS / U18's / Youth Cup team is not the point, the point is creating footballers, and we do that, we also utilise a system where we send good players out to "further eduction" across europe, and that is better than sending them on loan to league one, or even the championship, because in europe many teams play in a similar way to how our first team do. Here in England, in the main they don't play our way, so those who remain here who are loaned are probably already deemed not likely to be good enough, and the ones we don't loan are the ones that we want to keep close, so that they are training with our first team squad regularly and learning from the best manager/players in the world, Garcia and Harwood-Bellis for example (I can't remember who else is training with the first team squad right now, but there are others).
The academy is a profit centre first and foremost. The club invests a set sum of money into it and expects a decent return on thrir investment. If a player like Foden comes through into the first team that's a bonus in one way but in another way it stops us making a financial return on the player the longer he stays. Hence why relatively few will come through into the first team.
Players like Foden & Tommy Doyle, who have an emotional attachment to us, are probably more likely to the ones who do get the nod. But the rest are all for sale I suspect.
Ability comes into it as well PB, I don't think we wanted to lose the likes of Sancho or Diaz, but they didn't have the attachment you refer to.
It is what it is, but above all...
fyi, it’s intents and purposes.
I am not particularly worried, whilst it would be great if we swept all the trophies at their respective levels we are banking plenty of money, buy back clauses and future sell on clauses on players every year and that is exactly what we are in the business for. There will be an exception like every team for Foden, Garcia and so forth to supplement the first team squad. I am pretty sure I read an interview with Wilcox/Marwood who stressed the importance that results aren't the main target for the youth team, we regularly have players playing a couple years ahead of their age and that is better than us battering everyone 5-0.
He looks more Joey Barton than Lampard or Gerrard IMO.....could (and hopefully will) be proven wrong though. Jack Byrne looked levels ahead at the same age.