Would You Accept A Rapist Playing For City?

[SWP's back]

I don't think I will be in the minority.

Of course there is always a loud uneducated minority who like to bang on about issues like this and try and take the moral high ground by saying that people should never be forgiven for their crimes.

We live in a civilised society that has said that the crime ched did was punished by a five year jail sentence and he can be released in 2 1/2 years. He has served this time and is now ready to move on with his life and go back to his job. I would like to think that most people would accept that.

In addition the majority of people complaining don't come from the club he is going to play for. There has been little sign of any sheffield united protest that they will soon be employing ched. So unless you are going to claim that sheffield united fans are different to fans of other teams I don't see how you can say that the majority of city fans would in the same situation refuse to accept it.

If we had a star striker who went to prison for rape and he came back to the club after his sentence I think we would welcome him back.[/


You must be aware of the irony.

I'm out now as no amount of logical debate and presentation of facts will alter your opinion.

Ched Evans is a convicted rapist.

Fact.

Yes I am not disputing that....

I suggest you read this column. It's a broadsheet newspaper I'm afraid so you may need someone to help you with the longer words.

<a class="postlink" href="http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100283231/the-medievalism-of-the-campaign-to-stop-ched-evans-from-getting-his-old-job-back/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brend ... -job-back/</a>

LOL you're a cretin, it being a link to a broadsheet newspaper means fuck all, especially when it is a fucking blog!

Like I have said in this thread before, Lance Armstrong got banned from profressional cycling for life after being found guilty of taking dope. That doesn't mean he can't get a job, it means he can no longer do one form of sport as a career.

Are you saying rape is performance enhancing?

 

[cyberblue]

IT is a very emotive subect & not something to take lightly . if a person convicted of rape cant get a job he will be on benifits payed by us for the rest of his ,life if the person is in his 20s that is going to cost the taxpayer a small fortune .the alternative is to employ that person .if he is hight profile the public have a choice ,first of all they dont have to pay to watch him or pay to watch him but not support him .In this case i think Sheff Utd should take council from organisations such as women against rape .there is no easy solution .but how ever distasteful the crime once people have "paid there debt to society" should they not be allowed to earn a living? if you think they shouldnt be allowed to earn a living fair enough ,but you will be working to pay for his keep

 

[dobobobo]

Yes I am not disputing that....

I suggest you read this column. It's a broadsheet newspaper I'm afraid so you may need someone to help you with the longer words.

<a class="postlink" href="http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100283231/the-medievalism-of-the-campaign-to-stop-ched-evans-from-getting-his-old-job-back/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brend ... -job-back/</a>

LOL you're a cretin, it being a link to a broadsheet newspaper means fuck all, especially when it is a fucking blog!

Like I have said in this thread before, Lance Armstrong got banned from profressional cycling for life after being found guilty of taking dope. That doesn't mean he can't get a job, it means he can no longer do one form of sport as a career.

Are you saying rape is performance enhancing?

Nope.

Why didn't you read the thread?

 

[SWP's back]

LOL you're a cretin, it being a link to a broadsheet newspaper means fuck all, especially when it is a fucking blog!

Like I have said in this thread before, Lance Armstrong got banned from profressional cycling for life after being found guilty of taking dope. That doesn't mean he can't get a job, it means he can no longer do one form of sport as a career.

Are you saying rape is performance enhancing?

Nope.

Why didn't you read the thread?

I did and couldn't agree with much of what you said.

You are arbitrarily arguing for which jobs people should be allowed to do after serving the time the laws states that they should be incarcerated.

 

[cibaman]

"Playing for City" muddles the issue, since we would be paying millions and he would achieve near superstar status.

Do I think Evans should have a chance to resurrect his career? Yes

Do I think he should re-start at Sheffield United or a similar level? Re-start his career where he left off? Probably not. It would seem more appropriate for him to drop down a couple of divisions initially. Earn something nearer to average earnings for a couple of years, at least until he's "served" the full 5 years.

In many ways I agree with this - I too think that once someone has served their time for any crime then they deserve a second chance, as the alternative would be thousands of folk coming out of custody with no chance of finding employment, which would just increase the risk of reoffending.
Where I do disagree is just where he resumes his career - he has done his time, and therefore should be entitled to work for any employer who is prepared to pay him - expecting him to earn less is simply punishing him again for an offence he has already been punished for, and this just isn't how the real world works anyway.
Jeffrey Archer wrote a best selling novel whilst in prison, so clearly he didn't suffer financially, and the Guinness fraudsters all got early release on medical grounds only to get well paid jobs in the city, so they weren't punished further either.
I can't stand rapists, but if they have served their sentence, then they should have the same employment prospects as the rest of us.

Yes, I didn't mean to suggest that he should be prevented from playing for Sheffield United, or anyone. Just saying what I thought would be a "fair", if impractical, outcome.

 

[Rascal]

If you have served the punishment that the state acting on our behalf has decided fits the crime then of course you should be able to become a member of society again and work and act as a free man or woman.

Otherwise as i see it the whole point of crime leading to punishment leading to rehabilitation is just pointless. If you give somebody who has wronged no hope of redemption or acceptance back into society it must only ensure the likelihood of reoffending as they have nowhere else to turn apart from there past.


I understand some crimes are seen as more heinious and emotive than others and people have been directlly and indirectly affected by such crime but the heart of a fair and just society is always that if you have done wrong you do have a chance to redeem yourself. Otherwise whats the option? We just execute all criminals regardless, we lock people up for ever, we make the Isle of Wight an island for criminal incarcaration like that film did with New York.

Do the crime, do your time, is fair to everyone regardless of the crime

 

[dobobobo]

Are you saying rape is performance enhancing?

Nope.

Why didn't you read the thread?

I did and couldn't agree with much of what you said.

You are arbitrarily arguing for which jobs people should be allowed to do after serving the time the laws states that they should be incarcerated.

That's cool that you don't agree, but I already expanded on that point so I aint repeating myself.

 

[Shaelumstash]

If you have served the punishment that the state acting on our behalf has decided fits the crime then of course you should be able to become a member of society again and work and act as a free man or woman.

Otherwise as i see it the whole point of crime leading to punishment leading to rehabilitation is just pointless. If you give somebody who has wronged no hope of redemption or acceptance back into society it must only ensure the likelihood of reoffending as they have nowhere else to turn apart from there past.


I understand some crimes are seen as more heinious and emotive than others and people have been directlly and indirectly affected by such crime but the heart of a fair and just society is always that if you have done wrong you do have a chance to redeem yourself. Otherwise whats the option? We just execute all criminals regardless, we lock people up for ever, we make the Isle of Wight an island for criminal incarcaration like that film did with New York.

Do the crime, do your time, is fair to everyone regardless of the crime

You're absolutely right in what you're saying in terms of ex cons deserve to be able to work and contribute to society after serving time.

But playing for the club you support? That's an entirely different matter. Many would not accept Suarez at the club because he bites people. Christ, some said they would not accept Yaya back because he wanted a birthday cake! It's not because they think those "crimes" are so heinous that the perpetrator never deserved to work again, rather that they wouldn't want those kind of people associated with the club they love.

I'm sure we all have different moral limits of what we'd find acceptable, and what we wouldn't. Would you accept Gary Glitter to come and sing at next years City Live? Or Bashar al-Assad as CEO?

 

[Rascal]

If you have served the punishment that the state acting on our behalf has decided fits the crime then of course you should be able to become a member of society again and work and act as a free man or woman.

Otherwise as i see it the whole point of crime leading to punishment leading to rehabilitation is just pointless. If you give somebody who has wronged no hope of redemption or acceptance back into society it must only ensure the likelihood of reoffending as they have nowhere else to turn apart from there past.


I understand some crimes are seen as more heinious and emotive than others and people have been directlly and indirectly affected by such crime but the heart of a fair and just society is always that if you have done wrong you do have a chance to redeem yourself. Otherwise whats the option? We just execute all criminals regardless, we lock people up for ever, we make the Isle of Wight an island for criminal incarcaration like that film did with New York.

Do the crime, do your time, is fair to everyone regardless of the crime

You're absolutely right in what you're saying in terms of ex cons deserve to be able to work and contribute to society after serving time.

But playing for the club you support? That's an entirely different matter. Many would not accept Suarez at the club because he bites people. Christ, some said they would not accept Yaya back because he wanted a birthday cake! It's not because they think those "crimes" are so heinous that the perpetrator never deserved to work again, rather that they wouldn't want those kind of people associated with the club they love.

I'm sure we all have different moral limits of what we'd find acceptable, and what we wouldn't. Would you accept Gary Glitter to come and sing at next years City Live? Or Bashar al-Assad as CEO?

Where it comes to my club im a person who has a fairly high moral standpoint. I never watched us play live whilst Thaksin was owner and gave up my season tickets in protest.

But i do believe that if somebody has done there pennance for the crime they have committed then its slate wiped clean and everyone deserves a second chance.

Glitter and Assad are extreme cases, albeit i know little of Assads wrongdoings but if either were offered a chance i would judge on my own merits. Obviously neither will ever happen though.

But if Ched returns to football and he is like say Rickie Lambert a late developer and becomes a proper centre forward who could help us win trophies i would judge him on his football ability because he has served his time for his wrongdoing.

 

[Petetheblu]

No, he's scum and the only time I'd like to see a rapist is in a MMA ring getting the shite kicked out of him. The worlds gone mad if we're to be told to accept cheering on someone who has wrecked another familes lives with such disregard.

I agree about people getting 2nd chances, we all make errors but rape is not an error. Let them rot!!!

 

[Rascal]

No, he's scum and the only time I'd like to see a rapist is in a MMA ring getting the shite kicked out of him. The worlds gone mad if we're to be told to accept cheering on someone who has wrecked another familes lives with such disregard.

I agree about people getting 2nd chances, we all make errors but rape is not an error. Let them rot!!!

I wouldnt defend rape, i would defend the right of a person who is convicted of a crime of the right to rejoin society. The point many here miss is that if you preclude that right you only increase the likelihood of reoffending as they are left on the margins of society.


Without the chance of rehabilitation the whole criminal justice system is pointless

 

[Shaelumstash]

No, he's scum and the only time I'd like to see a rapist is in a MMA ring getting the shite kicked out of him. The worlds gone mad if we're to be told to accept cheering on someone who has wrecked another familes lives with such disregard.

I agree about people getting 2nd chances, we all make errors but rape is not an error. Let them rot!!!

I wouldnt defend rape, i would defend the right of a person who is convicted of a crime of the right to rejoin society. The point many here miss is that if you preclude that right you only increase the likelihood of reoffending as they are left on the margins of society.


Without the chance of rehabilitation the whole criminal justice system is pointless

You're quite right, but it's possible to be rejoin society without getting paid 30k a week for playing football in front of thousands.

Think of your favourite singer / band, if they'd Glitter'd it, would you still pay money to go to one of their gigs? I know I wouldn't.

 

[sir baconface]

No, he's scum and the only time I'd like to see a rapist is in a MMA ring getting the shite kicked out of him. The worlds gone mad if we're to be told to accept cheering on someone who has wrecked another familes lives with such disregard.

I agree about people getting 2nd chances, we all make errors but rape is not an error. Let them rot!!!

I wouldnt defend rape, i would defend the right of a person who is convicted of a crime of the right to rejoin society. The point many here miss is that if you preclude that right you only increase the likelihood of reoffending as they are left on the margins of society.


Without the chance of rehabilitation the whole criminal justice system is pointless

Rejoining society is a different question from joining City IMO. One is the law, which I wouldn't argue with too strongly. But when it comes to my club I apply higher standards. There are some footballers I can't stand and wouldn't want at City, even though they've committed no crime other than being a twat.

That said, football morals tend to be elastic. If we were talking about Aguero or Merlin, say, there would be less noise.

 

[johnbmcr]

The rags do it week in, week out ;o)

United have two* playing for them.

* allegedly

The Bluemoon legal team advise me not to name them. :-)

do you have a number for the legal team? I want some advice on planning law thanks

 

[yankcitizen76]

It's up to each individual employer I believe. I personally believe that if a person has paid his dues to society than they
should be given the chance for rehabilitation. If he or she can do the job and obey society's rules, don't they fall into
the group marked 'employable.' Any fear or prejudice an employer has about the employee is their own problem. Michael
Vick, an NFL quarterback, owned an illegal dog fighting kennel, ran these events and murdered dogs himself. After three years in
prison he was hired for his old job immediately. Is it so far fetched to think that City would do the same if Evans
was a unique enough talent?

 

[johnnytapia]

For those saying they wouldn't accept it, in what way would you demonstrate your lack of acceptance?

I'd leave 10 mins from the end in protest

Is this a cunning ruse to get out early and obviate the need to dig out the “can’t get away from the ground” spiel?!?

What if those “early leavers” made the additional protest - could it be done concurrent (bit like time at HMP), or would it be considered a non-protest?

Clearly, playing an ex-rapist could cause all sorts of untold problems. Then again, it could help becalm the sense of incandescent rage that begins a bubblin’ round about minute 75, as the good burghers of Bramall make their hasty escape from those pesky carparks.

Decisions, decisions...

 

[Petetheblu]

No, he's scum and the only time I'd like to see a rapist is in a MMA ring getting the shite kicked out of him. The worlds gone mad if we're to be told to accept cheering on someone who has wrecked another familes lives with such disregard.

I agree about people getting 2nd chances, we all make errors but rape is not an error. Let them rot!!!

I wouldnt defend rape, i would defend the right of a person who is convicted of a crime of the right to rejoin society. The point many here miss is that if you preclude that right you only increase the likelihood of reoffending as they are left on the margins of society.


Without the chance of rehabilitation the whole criminal justice system is pointless

A lot of it is pointless though Rasc.

Rape should have a sentence of 25 years if found guilty.

To rape someone you have to pick your victim, get them somewhere quiet, get an erection, over power them and then follow out the deed. Thats several moments where you could and would think wtf am I doing here and stop. The fact that they don't stop is what makes them an animal.

In the meantime someone has to recover from the substained physical injuries, bruises, lacerations, broken bones and strangulation. Then theres the mental scars which will never heal (I couldn't imagine how bad that must be). And it's not just the victim it's family friends and associates or the guilt of anyone that was out with the victim that night.

Rape is a life changing trauma for the victims.....so why should the likes of Evans get 2-3 years and then be allowed to just get on with his life or start again. The guy had several (as above) chances to stop what he was doing, to get a grip, however the as a decent member of society he didn't and thats why in my eyes he should still be in prison, banged up for another twenty years.

Why do we have to tolerate this??


This isn't aimed at you rasc, you're a much brighter man than me, but the "bloke done bad, serves time and then does good" can't be used on all criminals as the law it self is just shite and in many cases unjust.

 

[WNRH]

Since when did football have morals? You may not be comfortable with the fact that you are cheering for a man once convicted of such an offence but i guarantee you would still cheer his goals and sing his name.

Football fans are fickle, a hat trick for Sheffield United in an important win? Rape? what rape? they will cry!

 

[Petetheblu]

Since when did football have morals? You may not be comfortable with the fact that you are cheering for a man once convicted of such an offence but i guarantee you would still cheer his goals and sing his name.

Football fans are fickle, a hat trick for Sheffield United in an important win? Rape? what rape? they will cry!

Would I fuck!!!

Did you read anything I wrote?

No club should employ a rapist, not when the very fabric of the club is to attract finance from businesses, why would Etihad want to endorse something that had a rapist with the words 'Etihad' emblazoned across its chest, how good for would that be for world wide business??

I'll never cheer on a fucking scum rapist, fucking never and if you did what sort of person are you....?

 

[WNRH]

Since when did football have morals? You may not be comfortable with the fact that you are cheering for a man once convicted of such an offence but i guarantee you would still cheer his goals and sing his name.

Football fans are fickle, a hat trick for Sheffield United in an important win? Rape? what rape? they will cry!

Would I fuck!!!

Did you read anything I wrote?

No club should employ a rapist, not when the very fabric of the club is to attract finance from businesses, why would Etihad want to endorse something that had a rapist with the words 'Etihad' emblazoned across its chest, how good for would that be for world wide business??

I'll never cheer on a fucking scum rapist, fucking never and if you did what sort of person are you....?

That's business, that wasn't the question that was originally asked, the question was would you as fans accept it. I answered with the truth.

Just like Carlise have accepted Meppen Walter, Notts County and Oldham accepted Lee Hughes, Plymouth with Luke McCormick.

If Ched Evans scored for my team i would cheer, he just scored for my team, i wouldn't stand there and think "scumbag rapist" and neither would the vast majority of others. If you would then fair play but he's been convicted of the crime, served it and has been allowed back into society. Just because i would cheer a goal he scored for my team doesn't mean i think he's innocent or want to go down the pub with him. So what kind of person am i? A football fan.