You could see Mourinho's eyes light up

[Shaelumstash]

checkmate.told you centre halves are thick. :)

Night night Dismal

 

[CityCTID]

lol professional couch

 

[jay_mcfc]

along with the elephant in the room, the blatant space which opened for ronaldo.

Funny that, the last elephant in the room was Yaya Toure. You were wrong on that one, too.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

So Tevez played right midfield? I'm not putting words in your mouth, you said we played 4231 in the first half and didn't change until Zaba came on. So when Dzeko came on for Silva, who played where? If we were still playing 4231 then someone must have been playing in midfield out of Dzeko and Tevez?

Let's say you think it was Tevez on the right and Kolarov on the left, can you seriously say with a straight face from the 64th minute onwards they played the same role but on the opposite side? Your point of view is just completely wrong on this, and it's not complicated or a matter of opinion, Tevez and Kolarov played completely and entirely different roles.

I'm not just blindly defending Mancini, I think he made mistakes on Tuesday, and has made many mistakes before. I'm not arguing whether the changes he made were right or not, I'm just telling you Tevez did not play the same role as Kolarov in the second half, it's not in defence of Mancini, it's in defence of common sense.

you're all over the place mate, chucking desperate straw men in willy nilly, yet you steadfastly refuse to address the pertinent point, which was their left flank. Maicon didn't play wing back, he played full back. When zab came on he signalled, then played wing back. And that cost us the game. Space opened up which wasn't there before.

You can throw in lines about 'common sense' and 'fact' as though that makes you right but it doesn't apart from in your own head.

The system changed when zab came in. That's my opinion, not fact, but one I back up with two facts: zab's hand signals and that great yawning elephant In the room gap. Oh , and I'm backed up with the tactics website Zonal Marking, which someone quoted on the first page of the thread. It's his opinion, not fact, but it's an opinion well respected in the football world.

EDIT:

Your "Trump card" all along here has been the "Well respected" Zonal marking website. I've just read the article on this game, and here is a quote lifted directly from his analysis:

"Second half

For the second half, Mancini seemed to opt for something of a hybrid system – a cross between the first half shape, and more of a 3-5-1-1. Maicon and Kolarov were the men providing width on either flank, Gael Clichy more of a left-sided centre-back than a left-back, and Silva pushed into the centre to become a playmaker."

It's all coming crumbling down before your very eyes.

There's no Straw Man here, I'm quoting you. You said we played 4231 in the first half and we didn't change shape until Zaba came on. That's not me making anything up, that's me quoting what you have said on here.

You have also said Dzeko didn't play in midfield, he played up front. So if he was the "1" who was the "3" behind him? I assume you think Barry and Javi Garcia continued as the deep lying "2" so that only leaves Tevez, Yaya and Kolarov as the "3". If that is not your opinion, please tell me differently, I do not want to put words in your mouth, but common sense would say this is your outlook.

The point remains, if you do believe there was no change in system, taking the paragraph above in to account would assume Kolrov and Tevez had the same role but on opposite sides after Dzeko came on. If that's not your opinion then please explain how those players fitted in to the 4231 system.

I think you know you're pissing in the wind here, as I fully expect you to not answer my question and start quoting sources who back you up or whatever. Read your sources in depth, read the manual, and then tell me who was playing where in the 4231 after Dzeko came on. The problem is you can't, because we weren't playing that shape.

hahahahaha

You conveniently forgot the conclusion to the zonal marking article. Come on...let's have it...the one where he talks about the change of system when zab comes on...;-)

Or shall I quote it for you again. Clue. I quoted it on page one of the thread. Another clue. It backs up my original point.

You've shifted your position as the discussion has gone on repeatedly, and your narrative has slyly moved from 'there was no formation change when zab came on' to 'there was a change at half time'. I have always agreed with the point you are leaning on as a straw man- that clichy tucked in a bit and kolorov played deeper than nasri did. But it doesn't change what happened on the flank you keep ignoring.

We went 352. Zab played as wing back instead of the full ball role Maicon adopted. Prior to that dzeko was up front ahead of a line of kolorov, yaya and Tevez. But kolorov remained deeper and Tevez was his usual mobile self. That's what happens in football formations you know; people done just stand on their marked spot. Simple stuff though and not relevant to the discussion.

Keep clinging to your straw man if it makes you feel better, though. The facts remain. The change which you deny happened, the one which zab signalled, the one which changed the whole ahape of the game, the one which opened up the flank for ronaldo, the one which zonal marking documented, lost us the game.

 

[toffee balls]

Like I said earlier in the thread we lined up with 2 banks of 4 when we were without the ball (freeze frame at set pieces when our defensive line is mid way in our own half and you will see it clearly)

If Zaba was wing back why the fuck did he get sucked in on 2 ocassions ?
DD , I know you think we have better than Zaba and we continue to disaggree on that one but even I could not believe how stretched the game had become which made the spectacle so appealing to everyone.
We are guilty of over analysis here.

People like Yaya and Ronaldo make other players / formations look fuckin stupid.Thats what sets them apart.Thats why they were the 2 stand out players on the night.

What a game....

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Like I said earlier in the thread we lined up with 2 banks of 4 when we were without the ball (freeze frame at set pieces when our defensive line is mid way in our own half and you will see it clearly)

If Zaba was wing back why the fuck did he get sucked in on 2 ocassions ?
DD , I know you think we have better than Zaba and we continue to disaggree on that one but even I could not believe how stretched the game had become which made the spectacle so appealing to everyone.
We are guilty of over analysis here.

People like Yaya and Ronaldo make other players / formations look fuckin stupid.Thats what sets them apart.Thats why they were the 2 stand out players on the night.

What a game....

what a game indeed...and what a mad 20 minutes indeed.

I do think we have better than zab but let me tell you, I wished he was at right back instead of Maicon in the first half.

Unless he's well short of fitness, he looks like his legs have gone to me.

But that's another discussion of course, and doubtless one we'll be having on here in due course ;-)

 

[taconinja]

I asked Mr. Cox directly about this. He thinks it's reasonable to have a lot of doubt as to what Zabaleta was accomplishing with the hand gesture. Kompany's ludicrous defensive positioning makes the whole thing unclear. Was Zabaleta initiating a formation change? Was he confirming that Kompany was out of position and should move wider?

 

[Ragnarok]

along with the elephant in the room, the blatant space which opened for ronaldo.

Funny that, the last elephant in the room was Yaya Toure. You were wrong on that one, too.

I will send you 5 pounds if he ever replies to that ;)

 

[VOOMER]

I thought he changed to 3 at the back straight after the break personally. In fact i was completely adamant he had but it wasn't picked up by the commentators nor have I seen it mentioned here. I was sure he'd moved Maicon out to wing back and Kolarov the same on the other side. Clichy went inside as part of the back 3 and Silva went up to play behind Tevez with Yaya advancing from midfield.

I thought it was strange nobody picked up on it but if you look back on the second half from the start and our shape when defending it looks like he changed it half time

It was luck and some great saves that kept us in the game at half time. Every neutral reckons we were more in the game after the break, so the theory it doesn't work is bollocks. We happened to being playing against the second best club side in the world. It was good enough to see of chelski.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

along with the elephant in the room, the blatant space which opened for ronaldo.

Funny that, the last elephant in the room was Yaya Toure. You were wrong on that one, too.

I was definitely wrong about yaya, but in mitigation it took six months before he proved it.

That's five pounds I've just made you. Make sure you collect ;-)