You could see Mourinho's eyes light up

[gazinho]

Your assumption that we changed formation when Zaba came on is based on Andy Townshend's commentary, and not on how the actually game panned out. To say we were still playing 451 until Zaba came on is just factually wrong, it's not a matter of either of our opinions.

If you are suggesting that, then I assume you think Dzeko replaced Silva as a right midfielder? I assure you he didn't, he was playing up front. Maicon was playing 20 yards higher up the field than Clichy the whole second half, whereas in the first half they played at a similar depth.

Surely you appreciate on TV you cannot have an accurate view of the shape as you don't see the players position when they are off that ball. As someone who was at the game, I assure you certainly after SIlva came off for Dzeko, we clearly had two up front.

.............Kompany.....Nasti.........Clichy

Maicon.................................................Kolarov

................Javi Garcia,,,,,,,,Barry

...............................Yaya

........................Tevez
....................................Dzeko

Compared with the first half 451, Maicon was pushed much further forward, and Kolarov was tracking back much more. Clichy did drift out to full back positions on occasion when Kolarov was upfield, but for the vast majority of the second half he was tucked in alongside the centre halves. You say you are "not arsed" that Clichy was tucked in, well in a real game, him tucking in the whole second half and playing next to Kompany and Nasti is called played 3 centre halves.

you can bang on the table and claim what you think you saw as much as you want, and it doesn't change two simple facts.

1) as soon as the zabaleta sub was made, acres of space opened up for real madrid's most dangerous player on their left flank.

2) zabaleta came On the field and signalled to the defence that the system was changing. As he was replacing a right back, he would only make that signal to change things.

We started with a 4231, not a 451. When nasri went off and kolorov came on kolorov played a touch deeper than nasri would have done but clichy stayed at left back and the system stayed the same. Clichy did seem to tuck in a touch after half time but on the right flank, the 'danger' flank, things stayed the same. Then we made the sub, the five fingers went up, a gap opened, jose's eyes lit up and the rest was history.

Oh, and then Mancini showed his frustration by humiliating the man who'd kept us in the game when they were on top ;-)

I'm not banging on the table, I'm just trying to help you to understand, because you are wrong. I'm sure you will eventually back track again and claim it was a "Classic Didsbury Dave" wind up / attention seek all along, but if you are still in the mind set currently of believing Dzeko played right midfield then I suggest you watch the game again and turn the Andy Townshend commentary off.

I've got no problem with you saying it was 4231 in the first half, or course Barry and Javi were deeper than Yaya, but they were all still playing in midfield. People get too pedantic, 4231 and 451 are essentially the same shape, but saying we played 4231 is correct so I won't argue there.

You are basing your opinion on when we changed shape in the second half based on Andy Townshend's commentary and your interpretation of Zaba's hand signals, and the brightness of Mourinho's face. I'm basing when we changed shape based on we how the team lined up for the majority of the second half, I saw it with my own eyes because I was there.

It's not something you can change my mind on or convince me otherwise, no matter how bright Mourinho's face was. I saw it with my own eyes, and discussed it at length after Dzeko came on with the guy sat next to me who I'd never met before and he agreed we'd gone 532 / 352.

You're absolutely pissing in the wind mate, no matter how much you say exactly what happened and when it happened, which I completely agree with you the switch was made at half time, DD will never ever admit he is wrong.

We clearly went 3 at the back at half time with Maicon basically 1 on 1 with Marcelo and Kompany being assigned to deal with the threat of Ronaldo cutting inside. Once the change was made they found more and more space down our right because Zaba did what Zaba does and went chasing the ball (see where he ends up following Ozil too when Marcelo scores)

As for Maicon's legs having gone, whilst he obviously isnt going to be the player he once was up and down the line his positional discipline in the second half was second to none, he did such a job on Ronaldo that he switched to the right which he very rarely does nowadays only switching back to the left once we'd made the change.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I'm loving how noone is addressing zab's signals. Not a single reason given why he would signal. Was it to let them know which room they were ataying in after? The silence is as big as the huge gap which opened up on our right side straight after the sub.

The answer my friends, is blowing in The wind. The answer is blowing in the wind.

Oh, and it's on the well respected Zonal Marking tactics website too...

There's none so blind as those who hero worship, though, eh shaleeum?

 

[markbmcfc]

I've watched this back twice now, and can't change my original view. We played 3-5-2 when Kolarov came on, and Zabba signalled to play 5-3-2 when he came on. He then proceeded to have an absolute mare which caused a lot of our problems.

I take your view Dave, I have my own view, lets agree to disagree rather than be arrogant and say one is right and the other is wrong.

What is absolutely sure is we didn't have four at the back after Kolarov came on, because watching it back, each time we lined up in dead ball scenarios, he and Maicon were 10-20 yards ahead of VK, MN and GC who was playing centrally.

I think the introduction of Zabba and his absolute shocker made it look like we'd changed the shape, whereas I think his performance and the fact we dropped deeper combined to that affect.

That's my view and im sticking to it :) So we can agree to disagree.

 

[Anonymous]

The fact that there is so much disagreement about what our formation was speaks volumes.

 

[mike channon´s windmill]

Watched a re-run last night (coonty dago commentator - it was like his fookin granny had just died when we got the second - they have absolutely no idea of impartiality and objectivity here - expected more from TVE) and it looked 3-5-2 to me. Basically agree with DD´s premise although I certainly wouldn´t see a problem using the system at home against more modest opponents lets say

 

[supercrystal7]

you can bang on the table and claim what you think you saw as much as you want, and it doesn't change two simple facts.

1) as soon as the zabaleta sub was made, acres of space opened up for real madrid's most dangerous player on their left flank.

2) zabaleta came On the field and signalled to the defence that the system was changing. As he was replacing a right back, he would only make that signal to change things.

We started with a 4231, not a 451. When nasri went off and kolorov came on kolorov played a touch deeper than nasri would have done but clichy stayed at left back and the system stayed the same. Clichy did seem to tuck in a touch after half time but on the right flank, the 'danger' flank, things stayed the same. Then we made the sub, the five fingers went up, a gap opened, jose's eyes lit up and the rest was history.

Oh, and then Mancini showed his frustration by humiliating the man who'd kept us in the game when they were on top ;-)

I'm not banging on the table, I'm just trying to help you to understand, because you are wrong. I'm sure you will eventually back track again and claim it was a "Classic Didsbury Dave" wind up / attention seek all along, but if you are still in the mind set currently of believing Dzeko played right midfield then I suggest you watch the game again and turn the Andy Townshend commentary off.

I've got no problem with you saying it was 4231 in the first half, or course Barry and Javi were deeper than Yaya, but they were all still playing in midfield. People get too pedantic, 4231 and 451 are essentially the same shape, but saying we played 4231 is correct so I won't argue there.

You are basing your opinion on when we changed shape in the second half based on Andy Townshend's commentary and your interpretation of Zaba's hand signals, and the brightness of Mourinho's face. I'm basing when we changed shape based on we how the team lined up for the majority of the second half, I saw it with my own eyes because I was there.

It's not something you can change my mind on or convince me otherwise, no matter how bright Mourinho's face was. I saw it with my own eyes, and discussed it at length after Dzeko came on with the guy sat next to me who I'd never met before and he agreed we'd gone 532 / 352.

You're absolutely pissing in the wind mate, no matter how much you say exactly what happened and when it happened, which I completely agree with you the switch was made at half time, DD will never ever admit he is wrong.

We clearly went 3 at the back at half time with Maicon basically 1 on 1 with Marcelo and Kompany being assigned to deal with the threat of Ronaldo cutting inside. Once the change was made they found more and more space down our right because Zaba did what Zaba does and went chasing the ball (see where he ends up following Ozil too when Marcelo scores)

As for Maicon's legs having gone, whilst he obviously isnt going to be the player he once was up and down the line his positional discipline in the second half was second to none, he did such a job on Ronaldo that he switched to the right which he very rarely does nowadays only switching back to the left once we'd made the change.

This is the way I saw things as well. The formation and Maicon had the best or at worst second best player in the world switching flanks to try and get more joy. Zabeleta came on and had a very poor performance, yet everyone here wants him to start on Sunday (everyone being fit).

 

[Sir peace frog]

I'm loving how noone is addressing zab's signals. Not a single reason given why he would signal. Was it to let them know which room they were ataying in after? The silence is as big as the huge gap which opened up on our right side straight after the sub.

The answer my friends, is blowing in The wind. The answer is blowing in the wind.

Oh, and it's on the well respected Zonal Marking tactics website too...

There's none so blind as those who hero worship, though, eh shaleeum?

we were playing a 3 at the back from the second half,zabba did signal that he was playing the wing back and the system was staying the same,last time we used the 3 was against liverpool zabba was part of the three.

there isnt alot of confusion what we were playing it was obvious to see clichey was on the left of the 3 nasti in the middle vinny on the right,with maicon and kolarov as wing backs


with 4 at the back they steam rollered us,when we went to a 3/5 at the back we started getting a grip,

ive not read all this thread are people questioning why we changed to a 3 at the back or suggesting this is what caused the defeat ?

third goal was easily stoppable,ronaldo beat zabba ,not a problem with that,he should of showed him down the wing,but ronaldo will go where he wants hes that good,now garcia should of been covering zabba,thats his job in that area.

,2nd goal was a very good goal,ball played into benzema who controled spun and shot,maybe nasti coud of done better maybe not class goal.

the 3 at the back imo worked,it allowed us to get a grip,and push forward,and if you look back at the 2nd half we could/should of scored 4,the 2 goals plus yayas burst through,and zabbas miss as soon as he came on.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I'm loving how noone is addressing zab's signals. Not a single reason given why he would signal. Was it to let them know which room they were ataying in after? The silence is as big as the huge gap which opened up on our right side straight after the sub.

The answer my friends, is blowing in The wind. The answer is blowing in the wind.

Oh, and it's on the well respected Zonal Marking tactics website too...

There's none so blind as those who hero worship, though, eh shaleeum?

Why do you think Zaba's hand signals are more important than observing the shape we actually played in the second half?

If you can watch the second half again and say in all honesty you think we were still playing 4231 then I'm afraid you simply don't understand football or team shape.

You've still not answered whether you think Dzeko was playing right midfield. Maybe Zaba did some hand signals that could help you with this? Or possibly the brightness of Mourinho's eyes will give you a clue? Failing that, just watch the game back and observe where he played.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Watching Mourinho just prior to their winner, his eyes are far from lit up.

If anything, he is slumped in his chair, alongside his coaches, thoroughly pissed off and resigned to not getting the better of us.

Cue delirium and get out of jail.

As for formations, the more simplistic notion is that we had more than five players on the edge of our own box for at least the last seven minutes.

That's not formation, that's panic, pressure on ourselves, the knowing the whistle was not far off.

 

[Sir peace frog]

i heard that mourinho was a tactical wizard after tuesday,but as any manager would when they have been out thought he chucked on his most attacking players and threw everything at us,madrid won the war,however imo mancini out thought him in tactics.