You could see Mourinho's eyes light up

[johnmc]

Zaba said 5 and signalled 5 with his hand. 100%

 

[Shaelumstash]

Zaba said 5 and signalled 5 with his hand. 100%

He may have had instructions to play more like a 5 at the back than a 3, and for the defence to drop deeper, because we certainly did drop deeper after he came on.

However, I can assure you categorically that Silva was playing right midfield in the first half, and that when Dzeko came on to replace him he did not play right midfield. I'll put my balls on it.

The change in shape happened long before Zaba came on.

 

[Blankomania]

http://postimage.org/image/gkk0dol4x/

You do know you can go on itv catch up to rewatch the match. We clearly went to a 5 at the back with a 3 in front at the break. You can see this from the image link above. Sorry I dont know how to post the image! To be fair i didn't notice the 5 until i rewatched. The formation was pretty confusing.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Have you thought that maybe this had more to do with Maicon going off and Zabaleta coming on? You know the actual change in personal rather than any formation?

Whilst I don't think zab is the player many blues think he is, he's a lot better than Maicon. Sweet Jesus, his legs have gone entirely. The problem was zab was trying to bomb up and down the line as a wing back. Maicon at least operated as a full back and reduced the space they had. But it looks like we've signed a pup to me. So no, it wasnt the personel change.

Your assumption that we changed formation when Zaba came on is based on Andy Townshend's commentary, and not on how the actually game panned out. To say we were still playing 451 until Zaba came on is just factually wrong, it's not a matter of either of our opinions.

If you are suggesting that, then I assume you think Dzeko replaced Silva as a right midfielder? I assure you he didn't, he was playing up front. Maicon was playing 20 yards higher up the field than Clichy the whole second half, whereas in the first half they played at a similar depth.

Surely you appreciate on TV you cannot have an accurate view of the shape as you don't see the players position when they are off that ball. As someone who was at the game, I assure you certainly after SIlva came off for Dzeko, we clearly had two up front.

.............Kompany.....Nasti.........Clichy

Maicon.................................................Kolarov

................Javi Garcia,,,,,,,,Barry

...............................Yaya

........................Tevez
....................................Dzeko

Compared with the first half 451, Maicon was pushed much further forward, and Kolarov was tracking back much more. Clichy did drift out to full back positions on occasion when Kolarov was upfield, but for the vast majority of the second half he was tucked in alongside the centre halves. You say you are "not arsed" that Clichy was tucked in, well in a real game, him tucking in the whole second half and playing next to Kompany and Nasti is called played 3 centre halves.

you can bang on the table and claim what you think you saw as much as you want, and it doesn't change two simple facts.

1)zabaleta came On the field and signalled to the defence that the system was changing. As he was replacing a right back, he would only make that signal to change things.
2)as soon as the zabaleta sub was made, acres of space opened up for real madrid's most dangerous player on their left flank.

We started with a 4231, not a 451. When nasri went off and kolorov came on kolorov played a touch deeper than nasri would have done but clichy stayed at left back and the system stayed the same. Clichy did seem to tuck in a touch after half time but on the right flank, the 'danger' flank, things stayed the same. Then we made the sub, the five fingers went up, a gap opened, jose's eyes lit up and the rest was history.

Oh, and then Mancini showed his frustration by humiliating the man who'd kept us in the game when they were on top ;-)

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Whilst I don't think zab is the player many blues think he is, he's a lot better than Maicon. Sweet Jesus, his legs have gone entirely. The problem was zab was trying to bomb up and down the line as a wing back. Maicon at least operated as a full back and reduced the space they had. But it looks like we've signed a pup to me. So no, it wasnt the personel change.

Your assumption that we changed formation when Zaba came on is based on Andy Townshend's commentary, and not on how the actually game panned out. To say we were still playing 451 until Zaba came on is just factually wrong, it's not a matter of either of our opinions.

If you are suggesting that, then I assume you think Dzeko replaced Silva as a right midfielder? I assure you he didn't, he was playing up front. Maicon was playing 20 yards higher up the field than Clichy the whole second half, whereas in the first half they played at a similar depth.

Surely you appreciate on TV you cannot have an accurate view of the shape as you don't see the players position when they are off that ball. As someone who was at the game, I assure you certainly after SIlva came off for Dzeko, we clearly had two up front.

.............Kompany.....Nasti.........Clichy

Maicon.................................................Kolarov

................Javi Garcia,,,,,,,,Barry

...............................Yaya

........................Tevez
....................................Dzeko

Compared with the first half 451, Maicon was pushed much further forward, and Kolarov was tracking back much more. Clichy did drift out to full back positions on occasion when Kolarov was upfield, but for the vast majority of the second half he was tucked in alongside the centre halves. You say you are "not arsed" that Clichy was tucked in, well in a real game, him tucking in the whole second half and playing next to Kompany and Nasti is called played 3 centre halves.

you can bang on the table and claim what you think you saw as much as you want, and it doesn't change two simple facts.

1)zabaleta came On the field and signalled to the defence that the system was changing. As he was replacing a right back, he would only make that signal to change things.
2)as soon as the zabaleta sub was made, acres of space opened up for real madrid's most dangerous player on their left flank.

We started with a 4231, not a 451. When nasri went off and kolorov came on kolorov played a touch deeper than nasri would have done but clichy stayed at left back and the system stayed the same. Clichy did seem to tuck in a touch after half time but on the right flank, the 'danger' flank, things stayed the same. Then we made the sub, the five fingers went up, a gap opened, jose's eyes lit up and the rest was history.

Oh, and then Mancini showed his frustration by humiliating the man who'd kept us in the game when they were on top ;-)

whatever happened that was the worst performance I've ever seen Zaba put in for us.

 

[Blankomania]

Whilst I don't think zab is the player many blues think he is, he's a lot better than Maicon. Sweet Jesus, his legs have gone entirely. The problem was zab was trying to bomb up and down the line as a wing back. Maicon at least operated as a full back and reduced the space they had. But it looks like we've signed a pup to me. So no, it wasnt the personel change.

Your assumption that we changed formation when Zaba came on is based on Andy Townshend's commentary, and not on how the actually game panned out. To say we were still playing 451 until Zaba came on is just factually wrong, it's not a matter of either of our opinions.

If you are suggesting that, then I assume you think Dzeko replaced Silva as a right midfielder? I assure you he didn't, he was playing up front. Maicon was playing 20 yards higher up the field than Clichy the whole second half, whereas in the first half they played at a similar depth.

Surely you appreciate on TV you cannot have an accurate view of the shape as you don't see the players position when they are off that ball. As someone who was at the game, I assure you certainly after SIlva came off for Dzeko, we clearly had two up front.

.............Kompany.....Nasti.........Clichy

Maicon.................................................Kolarov

................Javi Garcia,,,,,,,,Barry

...............................Yaya

........................Tevez
....................................Dzeko

Compared with the first half 451, Maicon was pushed much further forward, and Kolarov was tracking back much more. Clichy did drift out to full back positions on occasion when Kolarov was upfield, but for the vast majority of the second half he was tucked in alongside the centre halves. You say you are "not arsed" that Clichy was tucked in, well in a real game, him tucking in the whole second half and playing next to Kompany and Nasti is called played 3 centre halves.

you can bang on the table and claim what you think you saw as much as you want, and it doesn't change two simple facts.

1)zabaleta came On the field and signalled to the defence that the system was changing. As he was replacing a right back, he would only make that signal to change things.
2)as soon as the zabaleta sub was made, acres of space opened up for real madrid's most dangerous player on their left flank.

We started with a 4231, not a 451. When nasri went off and kolorov came on kolorov played a touch deeper than nasri would have done but clichy stayed at left back and the system stayed the same. Clichy did seem to tuck in a touch after half time but on the right flank, the 'danger' flank, things stayed the same. Then we made the sub, the five fingers went up, a gap opened, jose's eyes lit up and the rest was history.

Oh, and then Mancini showed his frustration by humiliating the man who'd kept us in the game when they were on top ;-)

 

[Anonymous]

When he saw Mancini going to the 3-5-2 in the second half.

We'd weathered the storm and actually taken control of the game. We were ahead, Silva and Yaya had been causing them problems, they were being restricted to long shots. I was sitting at home, thinking of division 2, scarcely able to believe we were looking like winning at the Bernabau. As soon as I saw that change, I thought the same as Mourinho: we've opened up the flanks for them.

He made his changes, and lo and behold, their wide men found the space and got the goals.

I really really hope this is the last we see of this bloody 3-5-2. We have not got the players for it at the back. Clichy's not at his best tucked in. Lescott and Kompany look uneasy in it. Milner, Zabaleta, Maicon, Kolorov are not wing backs. They are not mobile enough.

It was a tactical change which cost us the game last night. On the plus side, I'm really hoping we don't see it again.

On another plus side, I was delighted the manager finally put Ya Ya in the role he is effective in from the start. I hope I never hear another poster on here say "he's only effective in that role late in games" because it's bollocks as he proved again last night.

So whilst I'm gutted we lost the game, I see two major positives to come from this. The death of the 3-5-2 and the death of Yaya as a holding player.

Yaya should NEVER have been a 'holding player' , in the first place ...... they guy has far too much flair to be left 'holding' anything !

As for the 3-5-2 , i agree we struggle a bit with it ..... although you would have to say that , going forward , we DID look a better side in the second half .... in the first half we were struggling to even get hold of the ball , let alone do anything with it !

 

[Shaelumstash]

Whilst I don't think zab is the player many blues think he is, he's a lot better than Maicon. Sweet Jesus, his legs have gone entirely. The problem was zab was trying to bomb up and down the line as a wing back. Maicon at least operated as a full back and reduced the space they had. But it looks like we've signed a pup to me. So no, it wasnt the personel change.

Your assumption that we changed formation when Zaba came on is based on Andy Townshend's commentary, and not on how the actually game panned out. To say we were still playing 451 until Zaba came on is just factually wrong, it's not a matter of either of our opinions.

If you are suggesting that, then I assume you think Dzeko replaced Silva as a right midfielder? I assure you he didn't, he was playing up front. Maicon was playing 20 yards higher up the field than Clichy the whole second half, whereas in the first half they played at a similar depth.

Surely you appreciate on TV you cannot have an accurate view of the shape as you don't see the players position when they are off that ball. As someone who was at the game, I assure you certainly after SIlva came off for Dzeko, we clearly had two up front.

.............Kompany.....Nasti.........Clichy

Maicon.................................................Kolarov

................Javi Garcia,,,,,,,,Barry

...............................Yaya

........................Tevez
....................................Dzeko

Compared with the first half 451, Maicon was pushed much further forward, and Kolarov was tracking back much more. Clichy did drift out to full back positions on occasion when Kolarov was upfield, but for the vast majority of the second half he was tucked in alongside the centre halves. You say you are "not arsed" that Clichy was tucked in, well in a real game, him tucking in the whole second half and playing next to Kompany and Nasti is called played 3 centre halves.

you can bang on the table and claim what you think you saw as much as you want, and it doesn't change two simple facts.

1) as soon as the zabaleta sub was made, acres of space opened up for real madrid's most dangerous player on their left flank.

2) zabaleta came On the field and signalled to the defence that the system was changing. As he was replacing a right back, he would only make that signal to change things.

We started with a 4231, not a 451. When nasri went off and kolorov came on kolorov played a touch deeper than nasri would have done but clichy stayed at left back and the system stayed the same. Clichy did seem to tuck in a touch after half time but on the right flank, the 'danger' flank, things stayed the same. Then we made the sub, the five fingers went up, a gap opened, jose's eyes lit up and the rest was history.

Oh, and then Mancini showed his frustration by humiliating the man who'd kept us in the game when they were on top ;-)

I'm not banging on the table, I'm just trying to help you to understand, because you are wrong. I'm sure you will eventually back track again and claim it was a "Classic Didsbury Dave" wind up / attention seek all along, but if you are still in the mind set currently of believing Dzeko played right midfield then I suggest you watch the game again and turn the Andy Townshend commentary off.

I've got no problem with you saying it was 4231 in the first half, or course Barry and Javi were deeper than Yaya, but they were all still playing in midfield. People get too pedantic, 4231 and 451 are essentially the same shape, but saying we played 4231 is correct so I won't argue there.

You are basing your opinion on when we changed shape in the second half based on Andy Townshend's commentary and your interpretation of Zaba's hand signals, and the brightness of Mourinho's face. I'm basing when we changed shape based on we how the team lined up for the majority of the second half, I saw it with my own eyes because I was there.

It's not something you can change my mind on or convince me otherwise, no matter how bright Mourinho's face was. I saw it with my own eyes, and discussed it at length after Dzeko came on with the guy sat next to me who I'd never met before and he agreed we'd gone 532 / 352.

 

[Mr Ed (The Stables)]

It won't be the last time it costs us either. If he continues this stupid tactic question marks will remain about Mancini's tactics and record in Europe.

Like Achilles it may end being known as Mancini's heel!

 

[Comrade Buka]

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5


Not saying anything either way, just showing what Zab did coming on.