Martin McGuinness Dies

[sir baconface]

All this he was good in the end is bollocks,he had a lot of blood and hatred on his hands

Think of the dead kids if you feel for him at all

That's not what "liberals" do, Karen . Dead kids don't count for anything like as much as honourable freedom fighters at dinner parties.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Is this still running? The ****'s dead lets fucking move on and ignore the spectacle Sinn Fein aided by the BBC are trying to make of it

 

[jay_mcfc]

I once saw Norman Tebbit in Hyde Park pushing his wife's wheelchair, sometime in the mid-nineties. It was a very sad sight. His comments today show how still consumed with sorrow and anger he is; which is also very sad. He's not my cup of tea, politically, or in terms of his outlook on the world, but he's clearly had to endure over three decades of utter heartbreak that I wouldn't wish on anyone.

That said, I find his comments about the near capitulation of the IRA around the time of the Peace Process to be misleading and/or wrong as they completely fail to grasp the nature of guerrilla warfare. The notion that violent Republicanism would have significantly disappeared without the acquiescence of Sinn Fein within the peace process is preposterous, quite frankly.

As to McGuinness, I'm pleased he made the journey that he did. It should be remembered that Catholics were treated appallingly in the six counties in the post-war years and at the time the IRA came to the fore there was no sign of the Protestant majority volunteering any changes to that state of play. That doesn't seek to excuse the actions of the IRA, but to provide some context as to the landscape into which they flourished.

Excellent post.

 

[bluemoonmatt]

Well I'll try and read between the lines of what seems a construed and slurred reply.

If you and a significant proportion of you're community felt repressed and victimised do you accept your position as a 2nd class citizen or do you oppose it by whatever means necessary, at what point do you draw a line and fight for your beliefs at what point in guerilla warfare do you draw a line around legitimate targets. I strongly reiterate I neither excuse nor condone what happened in the troubles but it needs saying ON BOTH SIDES. This thread is about mcguinnes but if one is allowed to argue properly he/she needs the wider context to do so.

I'm interested though, you are very much concentrating on mcguinness crimes which again I am offering no more than an explanation for certainly not an excuse, but I'm yet to hear why Irish republicanism felt the inspiration and need to take up armed struggle in the first place

 

[jay_mcfc]

There are obviously a lot of grave negatives that one could say about him but, ultimately, he left his society in a better, fairer condition than he found it.

Whether you think of him as solely a terrorist or a freedom fighter, a statesman or a charlatan, is ultimately up to yourself. For me though, anybody who summarily dismisses or emphatically praises his contributions is only displaying their own prejudices and dire lack of understanding of what used to be termed "the Irish Question", rather than evaluating a complex and, dare I say it, remarkable life.

Perhaps, rather than simply indulging in insults or hagiography, it would be wiser to just be thankful that the next generation will grow up wondering what the fuck we were all so bitter about?

Post of the thread for me.

The conflict started long before McGuiness was born but it was ended very much because of him. Maybe it was to avoid imprisonment (although I doubt Republicans feared going to jail) but whatever the reason it lead to peace for the next generation. Would people prefer he went to prison, served his time whilst the conflict continued and many more thousands were innocently killed? And for those so happy that he's passed, do you believe that tomorrow and in the near future Northern Ireland will be a safer place?

 

[hilts]

Well I'll try and read between the lines of what seems a construed and slurred reply.

If you and a significant proportion of you're community felt repressed and victimised do you accept your position as a 2nd class citizen or do you oppose it by whatever means necessary, at what point do you draw a line and fight for your beliefs at what point in guerilla warfare do you draw a line around legitimate targets. I strongly reiterate I neither excuse nor condone what happened in the troubles but it needs saying ON BOTH SIDES. This thread is about mcguinnes but if one is allowed to argue properly he/she needs the wider context to do so.

I'm interested though, you are very much concentrating on mcguinness crimes which again I am offering no more than an explanation for certainly not an excuse, but I'm yet to hear why Irish republicanism felt the inspiration and need to take up armed struggle in the first place

I asked you a simple question

 

[bluemoonmatt]

I asked you a simple question

And I answered, 2nd paragragh sweetheart

 

[hilts]

And I answered, 2nd paragragh sweetheart

No you didn't I suggest you read the question again. If you can't answer the first question then I'm not hopeful it's worth continuing

 

[bluemoonmatt]

No you didn't I suggest you read the question again. If you can't answer the first question then I'm not hopeful it's worth continuing

Go on then repost the question

 

[hilts]

Go on then repost the question

Lazy fucker

Under what circumstances would YOU murder or plot to murder an innocent human being. its a pretty straightforward question.