Post Match Thread: Election 2017

[blue cigar]

And yet she is still PM and Corbyn is still leader of the opposition. Must Hurt.

Read the comments from this thread then make a judgement on who is actually hurt. May is dead in the water, Jeremy has turned the tide make no mistake. Strong and stable my arse! Make gove the next leader and Labour will win the next election and that might be sooner rather than later.

 

[Chippy_boy]

sensible, moderate Labour leader

Stick with Lenin if you like mate. Suits me fine.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I totally agree. Corbyn did a great job at mobilising Labour and indeed UKIP voters. What he did not achieve in sufficient numbers was to convince moderate Tory voters.

Traditionally, sitting governments get booted out after 1 or 2 terms unless they are simply outstanding and/or their opponents are in complete disarray. This is even more true when the incumbent government is having to make deep cuts and other very unpalatable decisions. After a few years, people start to literally loathe them, as we can see is the case from these very forums.

When you put it all together;

• Abysmal Tory campaign - check
• Deeply unpopular austerity - check
• Been in power for years - check
• u-turns and all sorts of cock ups - check
• No positive Tory vision for the future - check
• Home secretary personally responsible for the police cuts - check

It is inconceivable to me, that a sensible, moderate Labour leader would not have won yesterday. I'm 100% positive they would. However, as Len said, there would not have been a general election yesterday, if Labour party did not had Corbyn at the helm in the first place. The Tories would never have called it.

You underestimate just how stonkingly good Corbyn is at campaigning and just how refreshing the manifesto was, it really galvanised people.

You simply don't get it. Blairism is dead

 

[Chippy_boy]

Read the comments from this thread then make a judgement on who is actually hurt. May is dead in the water, Jeremy has turned the tide make no mistake. Strong and stable my arse! Make gove the next leader and Labour will win the next election and that might be sooner rather than later.

I didn't vote for May. I voted for the Conservatives. She's dead in the water, the party is not.

 

[Blue Llama]

Again, your making the classic mistake of failing to use context when extrapolating to your own means. It may have been a figurative use of the phrase, but I was also marking what he had to deal with.

Quite ignorant of you, really.

Not sure if my ignorance or your naivety is worse. No other party had anything to deal with etc etc. I am not extrapolating I am stating facts. 50 less seats, he performed no better than the incompetent Brown. If you want to believe you have the man who will deliver a socialist utopia in the next election that's your prerogative but don't expect me to follow the fantasy.

 

[Chippy_boy]

You underestimate just how stonkingly good Corbyn is at campaigning and just how refreshing the manifesto was, it really galvanised people.

You simply don't get it. Blairism is dead

You don't win an argument by simply repeating it ad nauseum until your opponents die of boredom.

And his manifesto was a big fat con job, that not enough people believed.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Stick with Lenin if you like mate. Suits me fine.

Lenin my arse....

 

[Magicpole]

No we're not. The final result came in this morning Wells (Tory Hold) 318 seats. The one remaining seat on the election graphs is for the speaker - he won too.

I know. I was responding to your initial question that was obviously piss taking.

I replied in the same vein.

 

[kinkyisno.1]

I was also amazed when, at her last 'public' rally on Wednesday, she reminded everyone listening that if the Tories lost just 6 seats then they would no longer have a majority. Why did she say that? Tory voters don't usually need to be reminded to vote.
Not for a minute suggesting a conspiracy theory, merely pointing out her lack of political acumen because that was an own goal imho

Good point. Imo the whole thing was a rig up.

 

[Damocles]

Not sure why you think it shows the flaw. The difference is in parental involvement. When I grew up in Woodhouse Park if I missed school, misbehaved at school my biggest concern was my parents response. Today its the areas you describe rich areas that this still happens in. Poorer areas are bedevilled with a complete disrespect of education and its values. Parents and kids demanding their rights but ignoring the fact that rights go hand in hand with responsibilities. Socialist need to stop their archaic belief that all social ills are the result of a skewed system and that a big reason is down to individual behaviour.

So you've based your political philosophy on the idea that rich people are inherently just better than poor people and are asking why you're open to calls of going all Daily Mail?

Black people also have massive truancy problems too compared to white people. Probably because they're all lazy n****rs amirite?

Oh wait, that's different is it?

 

[mackenzie]

Seriously bad advisors to blame I think. Traditional thinking is never to admit you're wrong because it's perceived as a sign of weakness. I say bollocks. Doing a U-turn and saying nothing's changed, makes you look like you are fucking stupid or a liar. Either of which is worse than saying, "I'm sorry I got that wrong".



Yep.

I've read that as PM she only listens to a very small group of advisers. That's fine if they are in tune with the bigger picture but political suicide if not. Again it smacks of a reluctance to trust and a lack of wider vision

 

[Chippy_boy]

Lenin my arse....

Vladimir Lenin

Jeremy Corbyn

Power to the people, comrade.

 

[Damocles]

I'm amused and, somewhat, bemused at this post!

For a nation that has been voting right, for as long as it can remember, it seems that you don't see the deep significance of the strides that Corbyn has made. It took an awful lot of 'counselling' from Corbyn to get people to not vote against their own interests and in a VERY short time (allowing him to adjust from back light to spotlight) he has formed a manifesto that has clicked with people and actually got people to read it!

Also, remember that Corbyn has had to fight through the bitter attacks of his own party and the disgusting sludge of Tory papers' scathing attacks and STILL was nipping at the heels of the Prime Minister! That's an EXTRAORDINARY achievement and something where, I think, you and other Toryphiles are badly misjudging the mood of the country.

That he fell just short, just goes to show that if he'd been given that bit more core belief from amongst those I mentioned, he'd be in Number 10 now.

I guarantee you, those MPs that thought they reflected their constituents are feeling like shit today, but they are Blairite babies that cannot see the Tory in the mirror...

Fookin' Blairism is DEAD and you don't see it.

How lovely for you and your friends.

But Jim Smith is still on £40 a week today as he was yesterday and you've done absolutely nothing to help him.

You're interested in ideological battles. I'm interested in helping poor people. That's the key difference between our positions.

 

[The perfect fumble]

You don't win an argument by simply repeating it ad nauseum until your opponents die of boredom.

Yes, but sometimes it needs repeating because certain folk don't get it.

There have been two labour leader elections in the last two years, Corbyn won both by a landslide. That is a fact. You might think that's political suicide but you cannot re-invent facts and it is a stone cold fact that the party has wholeheartedly rejected Blairism on two separate occasions, it is as simple as that. Blairism is done, gone, it's not coming back.

 

[Bigga]

Not sure if my ignorance or your naivety is worse. No other party had anything to deal with etc etc. I am not extrapolating I am stating facts. 50 less seats, he performed no better than the incompetent Brown. If you want to believe you have the man who will deliver a socialist utopia in the next election that's your prerogative but don't expect me to follow the fantasy.

Yeah, the 'fantasy' of an 'IRA sympathiser' who has rubbish suits and even more rubbish ideas that somehow managed to gain seats, than lose them from the position Labour were in when he took over.

Another Tory with fingers in their ears screaming as loud as they can...

 

[Chippy_boy]

Yes, but sometimes it needs to repeating because certain folk don't get it.

There have been two labour leader elections in the last two years, Corbyn won both by a landslide. That is a fact. You might think that's political suicide but you cannot re-invent facts and it is a stone cold fact that the party has wholeheartedly rejected Blairism on two separate occasions, it is as simple as that. Blairism is done, gone, it's not coming back.

Oh for god's sake, you've said it again. Give it up man. We understand your opinion. You may be right, OR NOT.

If Corbyn stays for a 3rd time and loses again, things may change. Hell, how old is he? 70-odd?

You have an opinion that may be right. Please stop trying to tell people it's fact, when it is simply your opinion.

 

[mad4city]

I'm certainly not an admirer of the DUP* but as an Irishman, I'm smugly bemused to say the least by the beautiful irony that, having been so monumentally ignorant to run the Brexit referendum (not to mention be monumentally stupid enough to endorse it) without any concern, deference or even mention of its effect upon the Peace Process, that ye are now stuck with having to address the concerns of that province.
It's a delicious irony. I won't pretend otherwise.
The plethora of articles today, along the lines of "Who are the DUP?", "10 things you didn't know about...." etc etc are exemplary of the hitherto indifference to and complete lack of knowledge of the average resident of "The United Kingdom of Great Britain" about "and Northern Ireland" (whilst ironically never being shy to spout opinion upon the fate of the people there when pressed, I should add).
They say that in a democracy a people gets the government it deserves, you know... well, ye can't complain then.

*For those of you who are ignorant about the DUP, the first thing you need to know is that the D is silent.

Good luck in dealing with them. Ye will most certainly need it. Creationists, homophobic, under investigation for corruption, rabidly anti-abortion, on nod-a-wink terms with car-bombing terrorists (although always at pains to deny it)... Oh, ye've got yereselves some right boyos, there alright.
The only good thing that I can say about them is that they've recently stopped chaining up the swings in public playgrounds every week, for fear the kids might enjoy themselves on the Sabbath. So, I suppose there's that.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Yeah, the 'fantasy' of an 'IRA sympathiser' who has rubbish suits and even more rubbish ideas that somehow managed to gain seats, than lose them from the position Labour were in when he took over.

Another Tory with fingers in their ears screaming as loud as they can...

That's quite an ironic post, considering you lost. Normally the people who lost, do the soul-searching. Seems to me it's you who's in denial.

 

[Vic]

Two things seem to have escaped you.

1. Corybn has done no better than Gordon Brown in 2010. Nothing to crow about.

2. He was fortunate that the Tories ran the worst campaign ever. Had they not done so, he wouldn't have got as close as he did. Part of his "success" is not down to him.

That's just freaky. Brown lost seats, Corbyn's won them (and a bigger share of the vote). I''m not (or wasn't) a Corbyn fan - but only because I believed Labour had to be more centrist to win power.

 

[Damocles]

For those of you who are ignorant about the DUP, the first thing you need to know is that the D is silent.

Sat there for a minute thinking "what do you mean they're called up?"