Grenfell Tower block disaster

johnmc said:
Just a thought but would it be cheaper (not that this is the main issue) and less disruptive to have a fire crew at each of the tower blocks for a week whilst they do the testing and remove the cladding if needed?
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cheaper and less disruptive to the tower block.
less safe for the residents, the first engine was at grenfell in 6 minutes and look what happened.
less safe for everyone else. there are 157 fire engines in london of which about 135 are available at any one time (taking into account maintenance repair and crew training). Taking 5 more out of commission (along with about 100 firefighters) for a week is likely to cost lives at other fires.
 
johnmc said:
Just a thought but would it be cheaper (not that this is the main issue) and less disruptive to have a fire crew at each of the tower blocks for a week whilst they do the testing and remove the cladding if needed?
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How many spare fire crews do you really think there are in these times of austerity?

I'd put wardens on duty in each block until they are made safe.

In the meantime if you want to leave then you should be given that opportunity immediately. If you don't then I don't think you should be forced.
 
Imagine being told to move out at any time, nightmare stuff, and it does seem all a bit unnecessary to me, this stuff has been on these flats for 10 years without significant incident, it could be done far better than this, that's for sure.

One thing that has to be looked at, is the housing of old and disabled people in these blocks, not to mention young families. If another fire occurs, getting elderly, disabled and young kids, from high up floors is a logistical nightmare, as they can't use lifts, and can't move quickly. They should only be on the lowest floors only in future, and ideally not in these buildings at all, that will be another difficult logistical problem.
 
cleavers said:
Imagine being told to move out at any time, nightmare stuff, and it does seem all a bit unnecessary to me, this stuff has been on these flats for 10 years without significant incident, it could be done far better than this, that's for sure.

One thing that has to be looked at, is the housing of old and disabled people in these blocks, not to mention young families. If another fire occurs, getting elderly, disabled and young kids, from high up floors is a logistical nightmare, as they can't use lifts, and can't move quickly. They should only be on the lowest floors only in future, and ideally not in these buildings at all, that will be another difficult logistical problem.
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not really a nightmare and I have young children, disabled wife and pets.
if houses similar to mine had been shown to be unsafe and killed people and I was offered temporary accomodation in a leisure centre, I would be at the leisure centre in a heratbeat
 
cleavers said:
Imagine being told to move out at any time, nightmare stuff, and it does seem all a bit unnecessary to me, this stuff has been on these flats for 10 years without significant incident, it could be done far better than this, that's for sure.

One thing that has to be looked at, is the housing of old and disabled people in these blocks, not to mention young families. If another fire occurs, getting elderly, disabled and young kids, from high up floors is a logistical nightmare, as they can't use lifts, and can't move quickly. They should only be on the lowest floors only in future, and ideally not in these buildings at all, that will be another difficult logistical problem.
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Thats social housing for you mate - sadly a depository for people they can't fit in elsewhere. Also don't forget a lot of those elderly and inform people may not have been like that when they moved there 20 odd years ago. A lot of people in social housing are effectively trapped where they are - something which the bedroom tax highlighted
 
This Shirley Phillips the old cockney resident is a star, they can't shut her up, just said fire doors don't meet standards and she wants to know what time the cafe shuts and where to get water for her dog!
 
pirate said:
not really a nightmare and I have young children, disabled wife and pets.
if houses similar to mine had been shown to be unsafe and killed people and I was offered temporary accomodation in a leisure centre, I would be at the leisure centre in a heratbeat
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The thing is people do die in fires in properties similar to millions of others but what you cant do is just move everyone because of it.

Its right that remedial work is carried out on unsafe cladding etc and that sprinklers systems are retrofitted to make them as safe as possible but you can never take away completely the possibility of a fire.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Thats social housing for you mate - sadly a depository for people they can't fit in elsewhere.
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I don't think this is only "social housing", some of it is owner occupied, it doesn't really matter either way though, elderly, disabled, and very young children need to be better accommodated, because they are the ones most at risk. A proper risk assessment needs to be done on getting vulnerable people (social housing or not) out of high rise apartments, especially if the only way out is a single stairwell.
 
cleavers said:
OK, whatever you say.
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a well rounded reply

well worth posting

feeling better now you have that bit of petulance out of your system?

offering evacuation to people seems the correct response.
going to the press before you inform the residents is bollocks
if they are making it compulsary its bollocks
 
blueinsa said:
The thing is people do die in fires in properties similar to millions of others but what you cant do is just move everyone because of it.

Its right that remedial work is carried out on unsafe cladding etc and that sprinklers systems are retrofitted to make them as safe as possible but you can never take away completely the possibility of a fire.
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quite true, but this is an extraordinarily large number of people in a extraordinarily large number of properties where if there is a fire, Grenfell Tower shows and extraordinarily large numbers of people are likely to die.

Therefore I would argue this is an exceptional circumstance that needs an exceptional response
 
pirate said:
a well rounded reply

well worth posting
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Thanks, but I can't be bothered getting into a discussion with you, if you don't think being told at short notice, to go spend the night, maybe several nights, on a sports hall floor, with kids or elderly or disabled is a "nightmare" then you have a very different idea of "nightmare" to me. If I lived there in those circumstances, then I'd be wanting to stay where I was, until a proper solution was available, and not some stupid over reaction.
 
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