Grenfell Tower block disaster

karen7 said:
I think these fires are a rare event so there is time to think this through carefully,millions has been raised for them and it needs to be put to longer term accomodation for them,it's unlikely although not impossible there will be a similar event in the short term,having said that if i was up high in one of those blocks i would want out asap
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The risk of a similar event must have increased significantly after Grenfell. There will have been people, either terrorists or arsonists, who will have watched the Grenfell fire and have set their sights on a repeat.

An overnight evacuation does seem a touch OTT. Perhaps emergency measures such as a 24/7 fire warden service might have been sufficient for a week or so. But Grenfell isn't like natural disasters, which might be classed as "a one in a hundred years event". It happened because of dangerous building practices which could be widespread. And sadly we live in a world where people will look to exploit that.
 
yeseye said:
They're evicting the residents out of hotels now! This is a complete shambles.
Grenfell fire survivors moved out of hotel with just hours notice
http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-fire-survivors-moved-out-of-hotel-with-just-hours-notice-10925401
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Its hardly a surprise, its summer in Central London, a place full of tourists, so these hotel rooms will be booked for tourist purposes, harsh as it sounds but these hotels have businesses to run.

In any case, a hotel room is simply not where people should be living long term, they should be found proper accommodation, ie a home, as soon as possible.
 
cleavers said:
Its hardly a surprise, its summer in Central London, a place full of tourists, so these hotel rooms will be booked for tourist purposes, harsh as it sounds but these hotels have businesses to run.

In any case, a hotel room is simply not where people should be living long term, they should be found proper accommodation, ie a home, as soon as possible.
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Yes, i understand that, but where is the contingency plan?
Organizations that don't make contingency plans often do poorly when setbacks happen.
Like i said, shambles.
 
yeseye said:
Yes, i understand that, but where is the contingency plan?
Organizations that don't make contingency plans often do poorly when setbacks happen.
Like i said, shambles.
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You cannot put contingency plans in relation to accommodation for situations like this.

What would you expect each council to hold back 100s of social housing places in each area in the event of an incident like this happenning? Could you imagine the national outcry with so many homeless on the streets and the demand for homes?
 
tweetstreet said:
I've thought this too, the press have put it out there which blocks have the suspect classing so what's to stop a terrorist organisation identifying this?

Doesn't require the planning or manufacture of a bomb like Manchester did or even the renting of a van like London. They simply need to walk to a petrol station with a couple of Jerry Cans soak the one of the floors or an empty flat with Petrol and you have another Tinder box like Grenfell. This was an accident that killed 3-4 times as many as Manchester, so I wouldn't be surprised if a terrorist threat was identified. It's not something the Government would want to publicise either as it would cause mass hysteria amongst anyone living in a tower block.
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That's a good point but terrorists of all types are thankfully, typically idiots. Murderous idiots but idiots.
 
franksinatra said:
You cannot put contingency plans in relation to accommodation for situations like this.

What would you expect each council to hold back 100s of social housing places in each area in the event of an incident like this happenning? Could you imagine the national outcry with so many homeless on the streets and the demand for homes?
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No, but there are 33 councils in London, which should make themselves available to take 5-10 families temporally in the event of a emergency situation, besides putting these people in various hotels for a few days here and moving them out at a hours notice, many of whom have lost loved ones. Can't be that complex surely?
 
Could be up to 3000 people displaced now. That's a lot of people for councils to rehouse even if it is just a temporary situation.
 
yeseye said:
No, but there are 33 councils in London, which should make themselves available to take 5-10 families temporally in the event of a emergency situation, besides putting these people in various hotels for a few days here and moving them out at a hours notice, many of whom have lost loved ones. Can't be that complex surely?
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But one of the issues has been that families do not want to be moved to areas they are not familiar with, away from their support networks and the Government has been criticised for this also.

And yes it is complex because for 33 councils to permanently keep back rooms/properties for 5-10 people, based on the possibility of a disaster like this, could result in homeless families/individuals permanently not having somewhere to stay. Would that be fair on those people?

If you have finite resources you cannot not use them based on the possibility of an emergency you do not know if it will ever happen. That would be absurd.
 
blueinsa said:
Agree completely mate.

Tragic what has happened but lets all just take a step back, make the right plan for all those affected and get it done right in a real time frame that improves lives and doesn't just make 800 families literally squat for god knows how long in hotel rooms or leisure centre floors!
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No, they need to get out asap. So what, a few families get disrupted. Some of the posts in this thread of late are quite scary, thank fuck people like you are not in charge.


blueinsa said:
Agree completely mate.

Tragic what has happened but lets all just take a step back, make the right plan for all those affected and get it done right in a real time frame that improves lives and doesn't just make 800 families literally squat for god knows how long in hotel rooms or leisure centre floors!
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franksinatra said:
But one of the issues has been that families do not want to be moved to areas they are not familiar with, away from their support networks and the Government has been criticised for this also.

And yes it is complex because for 33 councils to permanently keep back rooms/properties for 5-10 people, based on the possibility of a disaster like this, could result in homeless families/individuals permanently not having somewhere to stay. Would that be fair on those people?

If you have finite resources you cannot not use them based on the possibility of an emergency you do not know if it will ever happen. That would be absurd.
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Maybe take a couple of acres in hampstead heath and purchase 50 static caravans. Has to be better then what's happening now? Rows of blow up beds on a leisure centre floor certainly isn't the answer imo.
 
yeseye said:
Maybe take a couple of acres in hampstead heath and purchase 50 static caravans. Has to be better then what's happening now? Rows of blow up beds on a leisure centre floor certainly isn't the answer imo.
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Don't start with the common sense stuff this is a council we are talking about, your suggestion is a great deal better than a leisure centre floor. They need to admit they haven't got the accommodation available and come up with a plan similar to your suggestion.
In Camden alone there are 30,000 people on the council housing list even when they offer private landlords up to £80,000 to do up empty vacant properties to let.
The system isn't working.
 
yeseye said:
Maybe take a couple of acres in hampstead heath and purchase 50 static caravans. Has to be better then what's happening now? Rows of blow up beds on a leisure centre floor certainly isn't the answer imo.
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It would soon get pictured as a shanty town and the council further criticised as a couple of 100 people, all traumatised, suffered the loss of fanily members/friends stuck in the middle of a field by the heartless council. Incidentally I am not dissgreeing with your wider point but I just know the council, particularly post 2010, will not have the resources in place.

Case in point my department has gone from 18 staff to 4 (including the manager). Its an impossible situation and these failures you have noted, just like the crisis in adult social care, hospitals are the consequence. The fact is individual councils do not have the resources or time to cope with such a tragic disaster. It needs a special team, with regular experience of such events to coordinate this, such as Cobra or something similar.
 
Surely if the fire risk is as high as it seems to be then evacuation is the only option.
Belatedly all councils are realising the seriousness of not making proper risk assessments of materials used in construction and the way in which the materials will be used.

Cannot blame them now and no doubt their plea of not knowing cannot now be used so let them answer why they allowed the same risk at the time of refurb at a later date.

All who used these flammable materials were the very people who should have been in a position to stop their use. Plenty of paperwork for the Police to work on or at least there should be. If it is missing or not been done then I'm sure the legal implications will be able to cope with that possibility.

What a shambles of indifference has been shown in the past by all the councils who are now rushing to show how concerned they are.
 
allan harper said:
What part of ( it's a fucking fire hazard, life's are in danger) do you not understand?
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Of course I get the risk, but posting precautionary measures whilst they endeavour to prepare accommodation and perform a more orderly top down withdraw would surely be a more reasonable approach.
 
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