Centre back options

salfordbluetrue said:
the MEN has city paying 185 million in 10 tears on the centre backs and your quite right watching city it is very obvious that it was the left back position that let us down the most last season but so did the goalie , now fixed, and the left sided centre back. We do not have anybody who can play that spot to a decent standard, Pep tried last year and failed
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If Tosin quickly finds his feet then there is no need to splash out on a new left sided centre back.
 
Happy that we didn't go for Rudiger, we need intelligent defenders for our system and from what I've seen of him that's not the case with him, he and Manolas carry a reputation based on the club they play for and not so much their actual abilities.
 
Marvin said:
Chelsea agreed deal with Roma for Rudiger a player who could have done a job for us............

27th March 2

A fortnight until we're back training and there's two quality central defenders off the market who we could easily have bought.
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Otamendi is better than Rudiger. So what would have been the point of buying Rudiger? Outside of being younger, I don't see the value.

We bought a Center back last summer, we bought one the summer before that, another the summer be that, and another 4 summers ago.

At some point, the answer to the question what do we need? has to stop being "a new CB."
 
Dax777 said:
Otamendi is better than Rudiger. So what would have been the point of buying Rudiger? Outside of being younger, I don't see the value.

We bought a Center back last summer, we bought one the summer before that, another the summer be that, and another 4 summers ago.

At some point, the answer to the question what do we need? has to stop being "a new CB."
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Well yes our record of centre-back buys has been terrible, but do we have the answer on our books? I know that 50% of it is making a game safe by scoring, but you have to be able to defend as well. Kompany can. Not sure on the other two.
 
Marvin said:
Well yes our record of centre-back buys has been terrible, but do we have the answer on our books? I know that 50% of it is making a game safe by scoring, but you have to be able to defend as well. Kompany can. Not sure on the other two.
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I think all 4 ( Yes including Kolarov) can. But more importantly, How well we do defensively is not just a function of how good our CBs are, but rather how good we are as an overall squad defensively.

The weakest points of that overall analysis of being good defensively were Keeper, fullbacks and scoring.

I know its counter intuitive, but scoring a lot early demoralizes the opposition and makes defending them easier.

Possession also demoralizes the opposition coz they spend so much time on trying to just get some of the ball time and thus little at actually what to do with it.

Making saves. Keepers make defending look better with key saves that slurs the defense.

Counterintuitively , Kompany's greatest addition to our squad play last season when he returned was his offense and possession (especially once his confidence was fully back.)

Defensively, contrary to popular opinion, he was a lot like Otamendi. He did a lot of the same things Otamendi often got chastise for. Gave up some unnecessary fouls, often rabid dog ran out of the backline to attempt to kill an attack before it started, and also made some dangerous slides. All quite Ota like.

However, where he was really immense for us was in his ability to dominate opposition in their box on corners and Freekicks. And also help us in keeping possession.

So yes I agree Komps is extremely important, but not necessarily for his defensive skills.


P.S:This is not a suggestion that Komps is not good defensively, but rather a suggestion that we are solid at CB... We are just better with Kompany because he brings more than just defense to the table.
 
Dax777 said:
I think all 4 ( Yes including Kolarov) can. But more importantly, How well we do defensively is not just a function of how good our CBs are, but rather how good we are as an overall squad defensively.

The weakest points of that overall analysis of being good defensively were Keeper, fullbacks and scoring.

I know its counter intuitive, but scoring a lot early demoralizes the opposition and makes defending them easier.

Possession also demoralizes the opposition coz they spend so much time on trying to just get some of the ball time and thus little at actually what to do with it.

Making saves. Keepers make defending look better with key saves that slurs the defense.

Counterintuitively , Kompany's greatest addition to our squad play last season when he returned was his offense and possession (especially once his confidence was fully back.)

Defensively, contrary to popular opinion, he was a lot like Otamendi. He did a lot of the same things Otamendi often got chastise for. Gave up some unnecessary fouls, often rabid dog ran out of the backline to attempt to kill an attack before it started, and also made some dangerous slides. All quite Ota like.

However, where he was really immense for us was in his ability to dominate opposition in their box on corners and Freekicks. And also help us in keeping possession.

So yes I agree Komps is extremely important, but not necessarily for his defensive skills.


P.S:This is not a suggestion that Komps is not good defensively, but rather a suggestion that we are solid at CB... We are just better with Kompany because he brings more than just defense to the table.
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Well I agree with much of that. Sadly Kompany's injury record isn't great. We have to be able to handle the games when he's out. There will inevitably games where we can't put a game away by taking our chances and have to defend one on one, because our offensive play opens us up to counter-attacking teams. Need I remind you of the Everton and leicester games last season? I doubt it
 
Marvin said:
Well I agree with much of that. Sadly Kompany's injury record isn't great. We have to be able to handle the games when he's out. There will inevitably games where we can't put a game away by taking our chances and have to defend one on one, because our offensive play opens us up to counter-attacking teams. Need I remind you of the Everton and leicester games last season? I doubt it
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I'd say we handled the games he was out pretty well overall.

Every now and then, you get a meltdown performance like Everton. Rare but they do happen. Everything going their way nothing your way and you are flat. I hate it But its possible. Less so with Kompany playing but possible.

Leicester on the other hand is irrelevant. Kolarov (Mendy/Bertrand),
Fernando (Dihno/ Yaya),
Kelechi (Aguero/ Gabriel)
Navas ( Sane/ Sanchez),
Zaba (Alves/ Walker)
Sagna( Otamendi/Komp)
Bravo (Ederson).
The above 7 were a part of the starting 11. Now imagine any of the names in bracket started instead.

That's not a failure of the CB position, rather it was a failure of squad depth at the time. If we get our stated stated targets depth wouldn't be an issue.
 
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City health warning said:
If Tosin quickly finds his feet then there is no need to splash out on a new left sided centre back.
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Except that what we need is someone who has the leadership skills to organise at the back when kompany isn't available. Even if Tosin steps up it's doubtful he will be up to guiding his CB partner through matches, if anything he's likely to need guiding through matches himself. Which of our CB options can do that other than Kompany? The answer sadly is none of them.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
Except that what we need is someone who has the leadership skills to organise at the back when kompany isn't available. Even if Tosin steps up it's doubtful he will be up to guiding his CB partner through matches, if anything he's likely to need guiding through matches himself. Which of our CB options can do that other than Kompany? The answer sadly is none of them.
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Once Dani Alves signs, he would be the ideal candidate for the second leader.
 
City health warning said:
Once Dani Alves, he would be the second leader in the side.
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He'll be spending half the time at the other end of the pitch. We need to be able to field a cb partnership that has someone in it at all times who can guide the other imo. If Kompany is there then fine, there's no problem but we saw all last season that the other partnerships we fielded were "rudderless". This is a make or break season for Stones he needs a leader right next to him imo, he really doesn't need to spend large parts of the season playing alongside Otamendi or Kolarov. Only my opinion though obviously.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
He'll be spending half the time at the other end of the pitch. We need to be able to field a cb partnership that has someone in it at all times who can guide the other imo. If Kompany is there then fine, there's no problem but we saw all last season that the other partnerships we fielded were "rudderless". This is a make or break season for Stones he needs a leader right next to him imo, he really doesn't need to spend large parts of the season playing alongside Otamendi or Kolarov. Only my opinion though obviously.
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A captain doesn't have to be tied to one specific position. The player has to have right characteristics to hold the team together on the pitch, which Alves has in spades. Although an extra defender would be welcomed we do have cover for the centre backs.
 
City health warning said:
A captain doesn't have to be tied to one specific position. The player has to have right characteristics to hold the team together on the pitch, which Alves has in spades. Although an extra defender would be welcomed we do have cover for the centre backs.
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I'm not necessarily talking about being captain. Not that bothered who has the arm band but I do think one of the two centre backs has to be able to organise things. I'm not disputing that Alves might have leadership qualities, I just think Stones particularly needs his centre back partner to have those qualities this season.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
I'm not necessarily talking about being captain. Not that bothered who has the arm band but I do think one of the two centre backs has to be able to organise things. I'm not disputing that Alves might have leadership qualities, I just think Stones particularly needs his centre back partner to have those qualities this season.
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The keeper can help with the defensive organisation (providing he has the skills to carry that side of his game out confidently and has a good grasp of English). There are other workarounds without necessary bringing in an extra centre back.
 
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If Vinny is not playing we need a defender who can lead and organise. Alderweireld would my first choice who ticks all the boxes but Spurs will not sell 2 of their players to us
 
City health warning said:
The keeper can help with the defensive organisation (providing he has the skills to carry that side of his game out confidently and has a good grasp of English). There are other workarounds without necessary bringing in an extra centre back.
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We aren't going to agree, you'll never convince me we don't need a centre back this summer, unless of course you can convince me that Kompany will stay fit for most of the season.
 
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