Singing section/Atmosphere

[SebastianBlue]

This thread amuses me as every week there is a different excuse for the lame atmosphere. Now we are back to the shit atmosphere being due to not having our own end which is comical.
Last week it was due to shit acoustics. The week before it was down to ticket prices. The week before down to not having safe standing. All complete bollocks. The acoustics sounded fine for the away fans in the past week. Cheap tickets last night and the mythical fans that make a noise but don't come cause of high prices didn't bother turning up. The South Stand stand all game but don't make a peep.

We have won god knows how many home games on the trot - yet the atmosphere at the three home games in 2018 has been an utter disgrace.

No idea what the answer is. But please give up on making dreadful excuses which just don't wash.

Fitting username.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Having been slowly moving closer to the away section on my visits back (as I’ve found the singing much better the closer you get these last few years), going from 134 to 228 to 322 (Soton) to now 317 (Basel), singing all the way, I have to say I think most of the first and second levels (and some of the third) of the South Stand outside of the away section should be converted to standing section with reduced ticket prices. It is the prime area for getting the songs going as it is the hotbed of banter with the away supporters and has the best acoustics in the stadium. It is also fairly easy to fill and drain from a crowd management standpoint and would absolutely boom during matches with a larger number of supporters in the area.

I know the club doesn’t seem to want to go in that direction but, as others have pointed out, I think it is the only viable way to improve the atmosphere.

 

[cleavers]

I have to say I think most of the first and second levels (and some of the third) of the South Stand outside of the away section should be converted to standing section

Not a chance of there ever being safe standing in SS3, its too steep, and H&S would never allow it. SS2 will also go corporate when the NS is extended, so that won't be happening either.

@Prophet of Doom - An observation about acoustics, I normally sit in 315 (where the amazing Burnley and Bristol C fans have been located), and whilst the atmosphere varies, when its good, its good, and the proximity of the roof is the reason why, and from there we rarely hear the SS1 singers.

Against Burnley I was moved down into SS1, in the SW corner, and whilst I could hear the singing section, and see they were singing, even that close, the noise generated by them is not loud (no roof above), and they were completely drowned out by the away fans above.

 

[urban genie]

move away fans to east stand level 3, this banter bollocks is just that, bar cup and european games most prem away fans hardly sing, or turn up in numbers.

level 2 always seems to project sound better so move the singing section to SS2 and reduce prices.

Reduce family stand to blocks 132-135 and turn the rest of ns1 and all of ss1 safe standing( or relaxed standing as is now in ss1)

110/111now joined to ss1 will hopefully them migrate singing across ss1 still so spreading the noise to 2 levels a d possibly ns1.

Fuck off united songs till derby week, see plenty near me stop singing when only 6-1/empty seats, were a shit man united etc start.

All above could be a load of shite tbf and not work, but the family stand has failed imho and the away fans being near the singing section for the banter and reaction doesn't happen as much as people would like and if it does it isn't hears around the ground

 

[fergal_oc]

Great suggestions @urban genie but ultimately no one has a concrete proven solution.

So if we want change we’ve got to give things a go, fail, learn and then try something different.

People will need to be flexible in seating and come willing to give their lungs a workout.

Maybe during the off season the club could get in some accoustic measuring equipment and get a few thousand fans to come in once a week, singing songs from different positions. It could even be done during the World Cup, showing the games on the big screens as an incentive to mimic as closely as possible a real game.

Like all the other suggestions tho they’re useless unless we actually give them a go.

 

[M18CTID]

This was my point exactly a couple of months ago when u took it the wrong way. I understand the group have tried everything they can to improve the atmosphere but like I said at the time to many fans had no intention of joining in when moving to the singing section all they moved for was to be able to sit with mates again after being split up from the other moves around the ground or from Maine road days.

The trouble is, it didn't come across like that. IIRC, you scoffed at the idea of the club moving the family stand and making the North Stand a singing section, saying that they'd never entertain it when in fact the club have been exploring that exact scenario. Whether it comes to fruition or not, nobody knows at this stage - the proposed NS expansion has been put on the back burner for now but if it does go ahead, moving the singing section over there can't be ruled out especially if safe standing gets the go ahead.

There also seemed to be an implication that 1894 were in some way responsible for using the relocation to 114/115 as a front for getting people just to sit next to their mates when in fact they did everything they could to get only pure singers in there as opposed to those who don't make any meaningful contribution - it was clear from the outset that we wanted a certain type of fan in there (one that sings!) as you can see from the OP in this thread http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/threads/regrouping-of-singers-within-the-stadium.309337/ Now I appreciate in your post above that you're not putting the blame on 1894 after all and instead you're correctly blaming those that relocated there who had no intention of singing in the first place so we're actually on the same page with that.

Looking back at the OP in that thread, it really couldn't have been any clearer yet we have a situation where there are swathes of people in 114/115 who can't be fucking arsed. That's bad enough in itself but to have instances where fans in there are being told to stop singing by other fans is beyond belief.

 

[jrb]

I've said it before a million times. Yawn.

The only way to create a proper singing section now is by expanding the NS and relocating the family Stand to another part of the stadium.

Giving over/up 2 blocks behind the NS goal, 1000 (safe standing) seats, and making them 1894 blocks and 1894 season tickets.

So how do you stop non singers going in to those blocks? Is it possible?

By putting an extra £50(or another amount) levy on top of the 1894 season ticket price. That would deter fans who don't want to sing, but just want to go in that block because of the atmosphere. Times that £50 by 1000 fans and you would have £50,000, which would go towards banners, flags, displays, etc for the season. Funding sorted out and ready to be used.

Trust me. People who are dead serious above moving to a proper singing section, and are dead serious about singing and creating an atmosphere would pay that extra money. I certainly would.

However, I suspect if the NS is ever expanded, which I'm not sure about now, we will end up with a similar situation to the current one. Another new singing section will be created in the lower tier of the NS, fans will be given the chance to relocate to it, and it will end up like 115 is now. And on top of that, if all the seats aren't taken up, the club will just sell them to City fans who want to buy a match ticket, but have absolutely no desire to sing and to create an atmosphere.

Regardless what the fans try and do it's really up to the club to create and to facilitate a 'proper and dedicated singing section'. And from my experience they will and want to do that isn't really there from the club. Especially not from those running and in-charge of the club. Even though they listen and have been open to dialogue. To be fair.

 

[blingy]

I think you would find with the introduction of safe standing you would quite easily fill out a developed North stand. We are not asking for Dortmunds wall or anything of the likes. City are not stupid, with people more and more pushing for standing across the country they would hold off for the time being.

The problem with the South stand is that it is already done up, the ship has sailed already. To stay in there is just to continue how it is. Lots of ground do just fine being nowhere near away fans. The likes of Bayern Munich, Gladbach and Liverpool with the Kop if you want to look closer to home are all the opposite end. Scum with the Stretford end as well. As mentioned previous this might actually improve it not just the typical shit you have every game taking the piss out of the away section.

In regards to the family stand what other ground has such a big family section? I would not do away with such a section completely as it is a good idea for the kids but just move it. If they don't want to move that's fine, just let them know it will be stood up, singing and swearing etc. I think they would last a season at most.

The final part you make about moving them to the south stand and making more noise. Really. Give me a bit of whatever you're drinking if so. The south stand and the corner block is the only place in the ground to make any noise. In no way am I saying it is brilliant but nothing from the other 3 stands. Why do you think stand up if you love city is sung from 115 every game. To try and get people involved. Then bluemoon or whatever is sung straight after it hopefully everyone is still on there feet and joins in with it. Never happens that way mind.

The final part of my post about sticking the families next to the away fans was very much tong in cheek, but I am amused that some on here seem to think that’s a good idea , obviously they don’t have children of there own.

There is actually quite a large number of family stand season ticket holders and I’m sure the club would have relocated or reduce the Fs should there not be the demand, yes there are empty seats in this area, a lot of thease are club and community tickets that don’t get used. And Night time games are a problem.

I’d have no doubt a safe standing lower tier would sell out, cheeper tickets for one but where are thease thousands of mythical singers coming from ..
Is it not practically standing now in the south and corner, so won’t it be just relocation of the same people to the north Stand ( you would probably lose a good few of the vocal ones who would prefer to stay next to the away fans) shouldn’t you try maybe filling out the bottom tier southstand with singers before you go slinging families out of there seats . And have the 1894 group already tried this with no real evidence of filling a tier let alone a stand with singers.

 

[urban genie]

I've said it before a million times. Yawn.

The only way to create a proper singing section now is by expanding the NS and relocating the family Stand to another part of the stadium.

Giving over/up 2 blocks behind the NS goal, 1000 (safe standing) seats, and making them 1894 blocks and 1894 season tickets.

So how do you stop non singers going in to those blocks? Is it possible?

By putting an extra £50(or another amount) levy on top of the 1894 season ticket price. That would deter fans who don't want to sing, but just want to go in that block because of the atmosphere. Times that £50 by 1000 fans and you would have £50,000, which would go towards banners, flags, displays, etc for the season. Funding sorted out and ready to be used.

Trust me. People who are dead serious above moving to a proper singing section, and are dead serious about singing and creating an atmosphere would pay that extra money. I certainly would.

However, I suspect if the NS is ever expanded, which I'm not sure about now, we will end up with a similar situation to the current one. Another new singing section will be created in the lower tier of the NS, fans will be given the chance to relocate to it, and it will end up like 115 is now. And on top of that, if all the seats aren't taken up, the club will just sell them to City fans who want to buy a match ticket, but have absolutely no desire to sing and to create an atmosphere.

Regardless what the fans try and do it's really up to the club to create and to facilitate a 'proper and dedicated singing section'. And from my experience they will and want to do that isn't really there from the club. Especially not from those running and in-charge of the club. Even though they listen and have been open to dialogue. To be fair.

I sing every game in little old 120, along with about 15-20 and am serious about singing, but I shouldn't have to pay extra for the privelige to stand in a special area to do it, if it wasn't for the DD scheme I wouldn't even be able to afford my lowly £615 gold season card.

Many people around the ground who do singbut are not in the singing section didn't move to it when it was offered, probably because they like where they are around people they have enjoyed the match with for years.
If the alloted singing section already had people who never sing move there already for the atmosphere of the place then not moving because of a premium added, you may find a smaller section less noisy.

I like what 1894 are doing, but I don't want to move to 114/115 or the ns, but will continue to sing where I am.

One tiny area makimg noise isn't the sollution the ground as a whole needs to start getting involved more.

When the kippax was on form, the north stand would then get involved with some back and forth, and the platt lane when refurbed and home fans went back in.


People are not making noise and then blaming the singing section for no atmosphere, well then get singing in your area and stop passing the buck.


Never thought I would say this, but palace the other week, one factor was their drum, it set a rythm that when used had the whitehorse lane stand joining in with the singing section

 

[jrb]

The final part of my post about sticking the families next to the away fans was very much tong in cheek, but I am amused that some on here seem to think that’s a good idea , obviously they don’t have children of there own.

There is actually quite a large number of family stand season ticket holders and I’m sure the club would have relocated or reduce the Fs should there not be the demand, yes there are empty seats in this area, a lot of thease are club and community tickets that don’t get used. And Night time games are a problem.

I’d have no doubt a safe standing lower tier would sell out, cheeper tickets for one but where are thease thousands of mythical singers coming from ..
Is it not practically standing now in the south and corner, so won’t it be just relocation of the same people to the north Stand ( you would probably lose a good few of the vocal ones who would prefer to stay next to the away fans) shouldn’t you try maybe filling out the bottom tier southstand with singers before you go slinging families out of there seats . And have the 1894 group already tried this with no real evidence of filling a tier let alone a stand with singers.

You don't need 1000's of 'mythical singers'? 500-1000 are enough.

Palace have abut 50-100 Ultras, but they get the rest of the stand going and the stadium.

The on-going issue is people have already bought their season tickets and have their seats, and it's impossible to get a large enough group of singers together in 1 section/block in the stadium now. Clearly the 115 relocation hasn't worked. Perhaps lessons can be learnt from that? Even in the CL games, where seats are available, there are only small rows of seats available at the bottom of 115. All the other available seats are singles or doubles dotted around 115 and further away from the away fans in the SS lower tier.

The club need to find a way of creating and keeping a new family stand/section, and a creating a new and proper singing section. That can only be done if the NS is expanded.

 

[Manchester33]

Here you go everyone... stop whinging and complaining and actually do something about the atmosphere (if you want it to improve).

http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/threads/1894-singing-section-vs-fc-basel.332472/

 

[NickyWeaverTheMagician]

The final part of my post about sticking the families next to the away fans was very much tong in cheek, but I am amused that some on here seem to think that’s a good idea , obviously they don’t have children of there own.

There is actually quite a large number of family stand season ticket holders and I’m sure the club would have relocated or reduce the Fs should there not be the demand, yes there are empty seats in this area, a lot of thease are club and community tickets that don’t get used. And Night time games are a problem.

I’d have no doubt a safe standing lower tier would sell out, cheeper tickets for one but where are thease thousands of mythical singers coming from ..
Is it not practically standing now in the south and corner, so won’t it be just relocation of the same people to the north Stand ( you would probably lose a good few of the vocal ones who would prefer to stay next to the away fans) shouldn’t you try maybe filling out the bottom tier southstand with singers before you go slinging families out of there seats . And have the 1894 group already tried this with no real evidence of filling a tier let alone a stand with singers.

Personally I don't think that is a good idea, I would just inform them as previously stated that it is going to be the new standing (hopefully) / singing section and their match day experience may be effected by this. That why they can stick if they won't but don't moan if someone is stood up in front of you, swearing etc. That isn't city forcing them to move, it would be them choosing not to stay there.

Obviously with stuff like community tickets just shove them in the third tier somewhere, they hardly need to be right at the front. There is no need to relocate FS season tickets holders for the club at the moment that's why. Until plans are coming into action it is a waste of time in case plans change.

As mentioned by JRB above in response I don't understand everybodys thought about there needing to be thousands and thousands in one section, Just a core together. I completely agree with previous comments that if redone as the South stand is there will be no change at all, even with the implementation of safe standing. I think it needs one premier league club to really get behind their fans and have the balls to bring the issue up with the FA and the government but that is another matter. They don't care if it isn't Wimbledon.

If you look at Palace as mentioned or Celtic, the Union bears at Rangers, Bayern Munich, Gladbach (the first out of the two times was one of the best atmospheres I have seen btw), PSG, Dortmund to some extend to name a few all of these have good atmospheres and the core is just a couple of hundred up to a thousand or so. It is all about what those around them are like joining in with stuff. A more open stand helps with that. If you put one big stand or even one biggish with a small upper tier as with the picture somebody posted before (think it was Schalke) people would hear more whats going on and hopefully feel more inclined to get involved. The amount of people I know that was due to go in South Stand one but decided on SS3 instead because they save £50 quid or so a year is unreal. Given the queue to get in and not being able to stand I wouldn't have thought it worth it. Do something to get them to want to move to one stand, which I think a lot of people would. Possible cheaper pricing with rail seats. Maybe leading to more youth?

One thing for certain though is that I wouldn't have a bottom tier as a singing section and one above a smaller family stand. Defeats the object because of reasons given above. The south stand is mainly filled with the people who have always been in the south standing except one block, the change might to the other end might just be what is needed.

 

[Silvas' left eyebrow]

Out of the box.......
Perhaps club could pay a number to sing ?
At our wedding few year ago we got a friends proper choir to come and sing in church. Other than that you end up with just Vicar and a few mumbling uncomfortable drunks singing, mouthing or whatever. But cos we had a dozen enthusiastic amateurs ( we covered their expenses.) giving it gusto the rest of congregation were comfortable giving it a go. Safety in numbers an all. The outcome plumbers , joiners and a few big lads , lads along with rest were carried along and hymns and shit were sung with real gusto and relaxed , 'fun' enjoyable ease.
Even as the guy going to the gallows that day it was a real enjoyable highlight for me . Still remember now.......just don't tell her indoors.

So maybe not that out of the box. If you have a leak you call a plumber ? We want singers then what about flyers to community choir s. You only need a dozen with a song sheet to light the fuse ...... Only a few year ago it was the vogue for all these flash mob dance groups etc. The idea isn't that silly.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Not a chance of there ever being safe standing in SS3, its too steep, and H&S would never allow it. SS2 will also go corporate when the NS is extended, so that won't be happening either.

@Prophet of Doom - An observation about acoustics, I normally sit in 315 (where the amazing Burnley and Bristol C fans have been located), and whilst the atmosphere varies, when its good, its good, and the proximity of the roof is the reason why, and from there we rarely hear the SS1 singers.

Against Burnley I was moved down into SS1, in the SW corner, and whilst I could hear the singing section, and see they were singing, even that close, the noise generated by them is not loud (no roof above), and they were completely drowned out by the away fans above.

Any move to standing, if done correctly, would require some renovations (one of the reasons the club likely doesn’t want to do it) and safety measures could be put in place similar to other sections in stadiums around the continent that would allow for SS3 to be perfectly safe for standing.

As far as SS2 going corporate, I wasn’t aware that was planned. Is that confirmed (as in shown in one of the phases of the expansion/development plan released by the club) or is that just what you think would happen (which, having been away for a few years, I would still trust your predictions more than mine—just trying to get a sense of the confidence in that change).

 

[Hiley rated]

We're out of the habit of creating our own atmosphere because the club force feed us motivational videos (you're not playing 11, you're playing us all) and corporate messages til the second the ref blows the whistle. I can't hear myself think, it's difficult to talk to the person next to you sometimes, let alone think about singing. Switch everything off 15 mins before kick off and we'll soon get in the habit of singing again. We used to sing each players own song at Maine Road when thy were warming up before kick off. It's the same at half time too. Surely it's worth a try for a few home games?

 

[NickyWeaverTheMagician]

Out of the box.......
Perhaps club could pay a number to sing ?
At our wedding few year ago we got a friends proper choir to come and sing in church. Other than that you end up with just Vicar and a few mumbling uncomfortable drunks singing, mouthing or whatever. But cos we had a dozen enthusiastic amateurs ( we covered their expenses.) giving it gusto the rest of congregation were comfortable giving it a go. Safety in numbers an all. The outcome plumbers , joiners and a few big lads , lads along with rest were carried along and hymns and shit were sung with real gusto and relaxed , 'fun' enjoyable ease.
Even as the guy going to the gallows that day it was a real enjoyable highlight for me . Still remember now.......just don't tell her indoors.

So maybe not that out of the box. If you have a leak you call a plumber ? We want singers then what about flyers to community choir s. You only need a dozen with a song sheet to light the fuse ...... Only a few year ago it was the vogue for all these flash mob dance groups etc. The idea isn't that silly.

you was obviously never near the club band at youth games in the CFA... they took enjoyment from being paid for people to shout shut the fuck up to them

 

[cleavers]

Any move to standing, if done correctly, would require some renovations (one of the reasons the club likely doesn’t want to do it) and safety measures could be put in place similar to other sections in stadiums around the continent that would allow for SS3 to be perfectly safe for standing.

As far as SS2 going corporate, I wasn’t aware that was planned. Is that confirmed (as in shown in one of the phases of the expansion/development plan released by the club) or is that just what you think would happen (which, having been away for a few years, I would still trust your predictions more than mine—just trying to get a sense of the confidence in that change).

There is no way that H&S will sanction safe/rail standing in level SS3 imho, its too steep, and to high, plus it is used (as this week) by the away supporters for cup games, and the police won't move the away fans. In the PL, it hasn't been sanctioned anywhere yet, but it will only ever be small sections at low levels imho, even if it is ever sanctioned.

As for corporate in level 2, I don't think it is confirmed, but given that the main corporate area for the east and west stand corporate seating, 93:20, is behind the south stand level 2 seating, which also now includes a corporate area of seating for the restaurant above it, its a natural extension to think that those SS2 seats will go the same way eventually, once we expand again. The NS extension may be different of course, we'll see once the plans come out again, it may be deemed that we have enough corporate by extending into SS2.

 

[Silvas' left eyebrow]

you was obviously never near the club band at youth games in the CFA... they took enjoyment from being paid for people to shout shut the fuck up to them

I was on about singing.......not a drummer or trumpeter......this is about the singing section right ? Why would we all suspect a pissed up 40 something would do it better than those who are their just to sing......

Like I said you have a leak you call a plumber NOT a florist.
As many flags as you like won't improve singing.
I actually don't sing . And I would expect pro s on half a mill a month to do the job on the pitch any Ho.
Dortmund and Celtic are not the best in the world regardless of atmosphere so all rather irrelevant

City do community work so why not get involved with a choir locally . Will it make it worse or could it possibly make it 1% better........

 

[NickyWeaverTheMagician]

I was on about singing.......not a drummer or trumpeter......this is about the singing section right ? Why would we all suspect a pissed up 40 something would do it better than those who are their just to sing......

Like I said you have a leak you call a plumber NOT a florist.
As many flags as you like won't improve singing.
I actually don't sing . And I would expect pro s on half a mill a month to do the job on the pitch any Ho.
Dortmund and Celtic are not the best in the world regardless of atmosphere so all rather irrelevant

City do community work so why not get involved with a choir locally . Will it make it worse or could it possibly make it 1% better........

Same principal. Not a natural atmosphere.

To be honest with you I thought you was joking in regards to your first comment hence my sarcastic response. If you was being serious who am I to judge but I'll just leave it at that...

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Out of the box.......
Perhaps club could pay a number to sing ?
At our wedding few year ago we got a friends proper choir to come and sing in church. Other than that you end up with just Vicar and a few mumbling uncomfortable drunks singing, mouthing or whatever. But cos we had a dozen enthusiastic amateurs ( we covered their expenses.) giving it gusto the rest of congregation were comfortable giving it a go. Safety in numbers an all. The outcome plumbers , joiners and a few big lads , lads along with rest were carried along and hymns and shit were sung with real gusto and relaxed , 'fun' enjoyable ease.
Even as the guy going to the gallows that day it was a real enjoyable highlight for me . Still remember now.......just don't tell her indoors.

So maybe not that out of the box. If you have a leak you call a plumber ? We want singers then what about flyers to community choir s. You only need a dozen with a song sheet to light the fuse ...... Only a few year ago it was the vogue for all these flash mob dance groups etc. The idea isn't that silly.

Just round up all the ex X factor finalists...problem solved