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Religion
- Thread starter idahoblues
- Start date
The intellect that thinks that it's oh clever yet can only think in ways such as yes or no. So demands
that any conversation is kept on this level otherwise it might be shown up for what it is - a not-so-intelligent fraud.
irony at its best
as the great sir topham hatt once said all you are doing is creating confusion and delay
trying to keep it simple to establish a base for a debate which you patently want to avoid
is this thread only a debate about religion or could it also be a process of opening to the Truth that is the essence of religion? Soirony at its best
as the great sir topham hatt once said all you are doing is creating confusion and delay
trying to keep it simple to establish a base for a debate which you patently want to avoid
it kind of curious to think there could be two perspectives according to each way. In the former perspective people might come in here and think they keep on winning
a fight against religion. `in the latter perspective this 'winning' is actually part of losing the defences against the Truth of religion. And people feel compelled to keep on
writing on this thread - almost as if they are secretly addicted to God...an addiction that the intellect cannot understand or explain - and if that's meant to be its greatest strength?
is this thread only a debate about religion or could it also be a process of opening to the Truth that is the essence of religion? So
it kind of curious to think there could be two perspectives according to each way. In the former perspective people might come in here and think they keep on winning
a fight against religion. `in the latter perspective this 'winning' is actually part of losing the defences against the Truth of religion. And people feel compelled to keep on
writing on this thread - almost as if they are secretly addicted to God...an addiction that the intellect cannot understand or explain - and if that's meant to be its greatest strength?
think the thread title is the clue mate, by all means open a new thread, that's your prerogative
i'm merely responding to posters who make certain assumptions as if it is a fact
Pick a fight that one cannot win with the intellect that one will come to a point where one will choose to let to of attachment to it.
This process may involve coming to question the intellects certainty that is has all the answers. At this point one might go through
a time of confusion - maybe even lost or despair. Yet as one comes to move through the confusion then on the other side of this
may be found a deeper, natural clarity.
This process may involve coming to question the intellects certainty that is has all the answers. At this point one might go through
a time of confusion - maybe even lost or despair. Yet as one comes to move through the confusion then on the other side of this
may be found a deeper, natural clarity.
What is religion for you? You might have certain definitions for this, others might choose otherwise. Perhaps for you it is only about facts, for others itthink the thread title is the clue mate, by all means open a new thread, that's your prerogative
i'm merely responding to posters who make certain assumptions as if it is a fact
may be more about the deepening of experience.
D
D
Deleted member 77198
Guest
Yeah I’ve thought that about how it’s caught on as being a ‘thing’ to do. Doing it just to say you’ve done it. Not a good way to go about things.For sure, many 'plant medicines' are misunderstood by modern societies..perhaps mainly because they work in a way that 'they shouldn't.' As for the likes of Ayahuasca, have known people who have found this great, others a bit of a nightmare. Don't know if this will come across as patronising but more and more it comes to feel like the difference between these two 'camps' is one of intent. In one camp you might have those that seek it out to be 'trendy' (for want of a better word) in the other camp there are those that feel a deeper 'call'. By the sounds of how you write, you probably already have a good feel for this and treat the medicines with respect - maybe more than I do.Its just that there has become a gringo ayahuasca culture around that has some not so pretty stories to go with it for sure. Anyhow, for me at the moment, my preference along these lines is more for kambo and/or cacao...though I might pay a visit to the west coast of Mexico, if I truly feel the call of the hongos :-)
But,yeah - reindeer piss still sounds intriguing...though I might not want to, erm, piss off the sami folk and their shamans...
It was the musician Paul Butler of The Bees who said "The whole thing has brought a lot of joy into my life. I think this kind of cleansing helps with your natural rhythm. Everyone has a song within them or a rhythm that is individual and personal only to you … and this kind of activity unlocks that." Not that I want to write a song, but it might give me something more creative from within which could be good for me.
I’ve also read it can “wipe out” the things that dig at the back of your mind the most, the things that drag you down or hold you back as you become more at ease with them or let them go.
Anyway, ’shroom season is approaching as it’s Autumn now...
What is religion for you? You might have certain definitions for this, others might choose otherwise. Perhaps for you it is only about facts, for others it
may be more about the deepening of experience.
as per the oxford english why? is there any other?
That's beautiful, cheers. And for me it feels like if we all learned to listen to and trust or own rhythm rather than to follow someone else's, then this would not bring about anarchy but rather deeper states of creative harmony (though the journey may be a touch chaotic at times).Yeah I’ve thought that about how it’s caught on as being a ‘thing’ to do. Doing it just to say you’ve done it. Not a good way to go about things.
It was the musician Paul Butler of The Bees who said "The whole thing has brought a lot of joy into my life. I think this kind of cleansing helps with your natural rhythm. Everyone has a song within them or a rhythm that is individual and personal only to you … and this kind of activity unlocks that." Not that I want to write a song, but it might give me something more creative from within which could be good for me.
I’ve also read it can “wipe out” the things that dig at the back of your mind the most, the things that drag you down or hold you back as you become more at ease with them or let them go.
Anyway, ’shroom season is approaching as it’s Autumn now...
And yes the medicines seem to work in such a way that they either lift you to 'happiness' or help you find and let go of stuck 'unhappiness' that may be dragging one down. Through this process it can also feel people/things/situations can also be like 'medicine' - some will show you happiness others show you where you are holding onto unhappiness so that this can be let go of. But as with the plants sometimes its like 'nah, this isn't the best one for me at the moment - so find a way to keep space between you and it.'
Genuinely? That might explain a few things. And yes, there are a lot of traditions that would call themselves religious that wouldas per the oxford english why? is there any other?
find this definition to be limiting, to say the least. Maybe they are not so well known? But even some within the christian church would speak of this (though historically some folk tried to torture and kill them for this). Don't know if you remember some of the taoist stuff but much of that is about practical experience. The buddhist
thing about 'fingers pointing to the moon' is about this also.
Genuinely? That might explain a few things. And yes, there are a lot of traditions that would call themselves religious that would
find this definition to be limiting, to say the least. Maybe they are not so well known? But even some within the christian church would speak of this (though historically some folk tried to torture and kill them for this). Don't know if you remember some of the taoist stuff but much of that is about practical experience. The buddhist
thing about 'fingers pointing to the moon' is about this also.
ever heard of the word facetious, its in the oxford english also
Just to add this from dictionary.comGenuinely? That might explain a few things. And yes, there are a lot of traditions that would call themselves religious that would
find this definition to be limiting, to say the least. Maybe they are not so well known? But even some within the christian church would speak of this (though historically some folk tried to torture and kill them for this). Don't know if you remember some of the taoist stuff but much of that is about practical experience. The buddhist
thing about 'fingers pointing to the moon' is about this also.
"a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion."
Guess this might bring up the question of whether the beliefs or the practices are primary. Most likely create different experiences.or reminds of the notion that
there are some languages where sound is primary, logical meaning secondary and vice versa. Fucking Om.
Am gonna have a guess that there are quite a few words n the OED that you would happily send my way. Care to look them upever heard of the word facetious, its in the oxford english also
and send me a copy of the list along with their definitions? Cheers, appreciated.
D
D
Deleted member 77198
Guest
Religion to me is the outdated (by millennia!) organised brainwashing of the masses driven into people from being impressionable toddlers.What is religion for you? You might have certain definitions for this, others might choose otherwise. Perhaps for you it is only about facts, for others it
may be more about the deepening of experience.
The word religion should be forgotten forever and all the “religions” should be called mythology. Like Norse and Greek. Attitudes towards religions need to change and it should be thought of as a hobby and an interest in fiction, myths and legends. Like Jedi and Warhammer.
It’s time to move away from saying a religion is a way to live a life because all the core morals and standards that religion has, which are great, are just core morals and standards of humanity anyway. Those core morals and standards should be thought of as being adhered to by people towards people in the name of their country, not in the name of a religion, as they are the core morals of living as a human not a religious person. And it’s time to move away from religious books being used as if they are historical by religions because there isn’t a single shred of evidence that anything in any religious book is historical fact. The Jews were never slaves to the Egyptians and never even lived in Eygypt, Jesus was not a real person and is just the personification of the Sun, huge parts of the Qur’an can’t even be understood by Arabic speakers and is untranslatable from its original language so fuck knows how people can take anything from that!
Religion should be banned from being taught in schools, there should be no religious schools, there should be no places of worship built anymore.
(I’d personally happily bulldoze every single place of worship in Great Britain tomorrow and build some social housing in their palace because this country needs social housing more than it needs religion).
Outside those core morals and standards, and the stories that are meant to teach us lessons in life, religions, to me, are dangerous! They scare and brainwash people into thinking God will reward or punish them for following or not following an array of things that can be construed in any number of ways from preaching lies to mass murder.
All three of Judaism, Christianity and Islam promote the murder of unbelievers. They’re filthy, dirty, down right evil in many ways!
However, I do think belief Bronze Age lies called religion is different to the belief in a creator. You can believe in a creator and not follow any religion.
As you can probably tell, I am certainly not religious. I also do not believe in God but I don’t think believing in God is as bad as being religious. Following a religion in 2018 is nothing but fucking weird! It’s thousands of years since they were made up, and especially 300 years after we went through enlightenment, especially as the historicity of the three main religious texts have been proven to be total bullshit, especially because of Science.
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What if the essence of this all comes to be about identity - who/what is our true nature. Is it just this the body, the mind, the emotions, the stories, the beliefs, the 'morals' or is there something else? The point might be that neither science nor religion can wholly explain this?Religion to me is the outdated (by millennia!) organised brainwashing of the masses driven into people from being impressionable toddlers.
The word religion should be forgotten forever and all the “religions” should be called mythology. Like Norse and Greek. Attitudes towards religions need to change and it should be thought of as a hobby and an interest in fiction, myths and legends. Like Jedi and Warhammer.
It’s time to move away from saying a religion is a way to live a life because all the core morals and standards that religion has, which are great, are just core morals and standards of humanity anyway. Those core morals and standards should be thought of as being adhered to by people towards people in the name of their country, not in the name of a religion, as they are the core morals of living as a human not a religious person. And it’s time to move away from religious books being used as if they are historical by religions because there isn’t a single shred of evidence that anything in any religious book is historical fact. The Jews were never slaves to the Egyptians and never even lived in Eygypt, Jesus was not a real person and is just the personification of the Sun, huge parts of the Qur’an can’t even be understood by Arabic speakers and is untranslatable from its original language so fuck knows how people can take anything from that!
Religion should be banned from being taught in schools, there should be no religious schools, there should be no places of worship built anymore.
(I’d personally happily bulldoze every single place of worship in Great Britain tomorrow and build some social housing in their palace because this country needs social housing more than it needs religion).
Outside those core morals and standards, and the stories that are meant to teach us lessons in life, religions, to me, are dangerous! They scare and brainwash people into thinking God will reward or punish them for following or not following an array of things that can be construed in any number of ways from preaching lies to mass murder.
All three of Judaism, Christianity and Islam promote the murder of unbelievers. They’re filthy, dirty, down right evil in many ways!
However, I do think belief Bronze Age lies called religion is different to the belief in a creator. You can believe in a creator and not follow any religion.
As you can probably tell, I am certainly not religious. I also do not believe in God but I don’t think believing in God is as bad as being religious. Following a religion in 2018 is nothing but fucking weird! It’s thousands of years since they were made up, and especially 300 years after we went through enlightenment, especially as the historicity of the three main religious texts have been proven to be total bullshit, especially because of Science.
But then again there might be said to be 'practices' found in both religion and science, that are not so much about trying to prove the strength of one model but rather to find and release the weakness and so open to the next level of knowledge. In a similar manner an art/or medicine can be that which brings up weaknesses to be let go of, so as to open to a next level of power. For example, perhaps I have felt fear within before that was so intense that I was cowered - I might then judge myself to be a coward and be ashamed of this. From this I might then feel a need to hide this fear and 'prove' on the outside how tough and strong I am - maybe demanding respect from others so as to try and make up for the secret shame. Or maybe with a medicine and/or teacher I can allow these 'weaknesses' to be released and so open to a deeper, inner strength. Which attitude might be best to approach a medicine and/or genuine teacher with - the one that will want to prove 'how strong it is' or 'how much it knows' or the one that is wiling to allow weaknesses to be revealed, that admits that it might not know everything - in this way creating a space for deeper strength and knowing to enter?
Within the above then would it be okay to admit to weaknesses like hmmmm, I dunno, sometimes feel like being in the grip of a way of hell - doesn't make me evil by nature just caught up in something unlike humanity's shared nature. Religion (as defined by some) might try to tell me how to attempt to be more heavenly and 'above sin', science might try to tell me how to be above even that, above those 'deluded God believers'. But maybe there is something else. A medicine, a way of grace, call it what you want...but it releases the grip of a perhaps previously unconscious way of hell...in this way slowly opening to the beauty and power of the essence of humanity, what some might have attempted to call heavenly.
Beyond this, is it not possible that being anti-religion, or against the war of religions or supporting a war of science vs religion...is not the same as being for the peace that can be found beyond both science and religion, a peace that is free of the grip of hell? In this way some might venture into religion, some into science, others into neither...but somehow all find their own best way, their own unique rhythm if you want...
Religion is said to involve beliefs and practices. What if one is willing to let go of thinking about the outside, so as to deeper feel what is inside? And if what is inside has its source in 'heaven,' would this really be so bad? Perhaps as one opens to this 'heavenly' feeling, the 'hellish thoughts might naturally fall away - no need to fight them just let them go. The warmth of a holy fire perhaps with its comforting loving kindness or attempts to fight agains an unholy fire its harsh flames bringing suffering that might be called inflammatory states of dis-ease. Not a punishment or reward from 'God' - this person is worthy, that person isn't - just a simple choice that we make for ourselves. Peace
What if, in football, winning may be called ''heaven,' losing 'hell?' In this way a player may have a fear of losing and so be driven to win. And may achieve much through this way . But what if this player then comes to question 'What if I come to let go of this fear of losing, might I then be freed of the grip of losing itself? In this way might one open to states of winning that are beyond that which can be known by being driven be the fear of losing? Maybe this is what is meant, when told that one has to learn to play football with courage? Coeur - the heart... a heart that is free to play without the fear of losing?'
Banned Tosspot
Well-Known Member
Someone is desperate to keep this thread going on and on and on....
At a guess you want it to end? Great, enjoy - though you might want to not post anymore as surely that would keep the thread goingSomeone is desperate to keep this thread going on and on and on....
on and on and on...and so defeat your own purpose? On the other hand,If you don't want this thread to end then might that require some people posting?