737-8 max plane goes down (2018) - new not Max crash Indonesia

[west didsblue]

You crash in a car you’re likely to survive

You crash in a plane you’re dead

That’s not actually true. If you’re on a plane that’s involved in a crash, the survivability rate as a whole is 95%. Obviously some plane crashes are unsurvivable but most aren’t. A bit like car crashes.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/odds-surviving-plane-crash/story?id=22886654

 

[manimanc]

I’m going to do that at least 5 times tomorrow in the simulator, so it shouldn’t bother you. Happens all the time, and almost happened to me on landing just last night in Chicago. Sometimes, spacing is just too tight, aircraft land at different speeds and slow down at different rates, etc, etc...No biggie! Power up, suck up some flaps, gear up, climb speed, Bob’s your uncle...and come back around and do it again! ;-)

I'm a bit of a plane geek on the sly and could listen to you pilot guys talk til my ears calm off.
Who do you fly for if you don't mind me asking you?

 

[Shirley]

Read that Australia have told government employees and contractors not to use Lion Air.

When I worked in Indonesia the American oil company ordered their expats not to use any budget airline and use only the national airline Garuda. The maintenance procedures were piss poor and I don't think nothing has changed.

 

[pride in battle]

I’m going to do that at least 5 times tomorrow in the simulator, so it shouldn’t bother you. Happens all the time, and almost happened to me on landing just last night in Chicago. Sometimes, spacing is just too tight, aircraft land at different speeds and slow down at different rates, etc, etc...No biggie! Power up, suck up some flaps, gear up, climb speed, Bob’s your uncle...and come back around and do it again! ;-)

How much flying does the actual pilot do or is it a lot of auto pilot.
I don't like flying at all so I love to read pilots take on flying ie its so safe etc
Thank you :)

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I'm a bit of a plane geek on the sly and could listen to you pilot guys talk til my ears calm off.
Who do you fly for if you don't mind me asking you?

I believe he flies for United. Also my hub airline. 1.75 million miles and counting on those birds. 5,500 more in December out to lovely Manchester.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

I’m going to do that at least 5 times tomorrow in the simulator, so it shouldn’t bother you. Happens all the time, and almost happened to me on landing just last night in Chicago. Sometimes, spacing is just too tight, aircraft land at different speeds and slow down at different rates, etc, etc...No biggie! Power up, suck up some flaps, gear up, climb speed, Bob’s your uncle...and come back around and do it again! ;-)

Even I can do it

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I'm a bit of a plane geek on the sly and could listen to you pilot guys talk til my ears calm off.
Who do you fly for if you don't mind me asking you?

Hate to even type the word, but U****d Airlines!! ;-)

 

[ChicagoBlue]

How much flying does the actual pilot do or is it a lot of auto pilot.
I don't like flying at all so I love to read pilots take on flying ie its so safe etc
Thank you :)

Pilot choice, really. I like to fly upto at least 18,000’ and down from about 7-10,000 to the landing. Every now and then, we have an autopilot inop, so you fly the whole flight, but I’ve only done that twice in 23+ yrs at the airline.

Some guys turn the autopilot on early (below 1,000’) and off again at about 500’ but to me there’s no enjoyment in that. Last night in Chicago we had some clouds, winds and rain (Winter is coming!) so I flew the whole descent, approach and landing by hand for practice. Really enjoyable!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

That’s not actually true. If you’re on a plane that’s involved in a crash, the survivability rate as a whole is 95%. Obviously some plane crashes are unsurvivable but most aren’t. A bit like car crashes.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/odds-surviving-plane-crash/story?id=22886654

I was going to post the United 232 crash video from 1989 and ask how many people survived that cartwheeling fireball, but I thought it might be in poor taste after a couple of accidents. Over 100 people survived that accident, which is more than 1/3 of the passengers. That was one of the more horrific LOOKING accidents you will see, but survivable depending upon seat location. In fact, even the pilots survived, which was a miracle and one of them was still flying for us until recently!

 

[Henkeman]

I was going to post the United 232 crash video from 1989 and ask how many people survived that cartwheeling fireball, but I thought it might be in poor taste after a couple of accidents. Over 100 people survived that accident, which is more than 1/3 of the passengers. That was one of the more horrific LOOKING accidents you will see, but survivable depending upon seat location. In fact, even the pilots survived, which was a miracle and one of them is still flying for us!

Do they still get you to have a crack at landing that one with no hydraulics in the simulator? I know that was de rigeur for a while as notoriously difficult to get the thing down. Obviously when it's for real it does rather concentrate the mind...

 

[manchester blue]

I'm a bit of a plane geek on the sly and could listen to you pilot guys talk til my ears calm off.
Who do you fly for if you don't mind me asking you?

Me too. I like Chicargo Blue's insights, very interesting and reassuring.

I'll still do my best to get out of flying though wherever I can. He's summed up what most people's issues are when he mentioned being in control. For me it is that. Maybe if we had a video feed of the cockpit we could see that they're not fighting the controls and be more relaxed passengers :)

 

[Indaparkside]

I wonder if Dennis bergkamp is reading this

 

[DrBlueBob]

There was a spate of 737 crashes in the early 90s through the rudder jamming wasn't there, causing it to go into an unrecoverable dive? Is this what some posters on here are alluding to, the same problem on a new aeroplane?

Perhaps spate is overstating the case but you are correct. I have no idea what caused the latest crash though.

Even I can do it

If you doing aerobatics then your one ball must be made out of steel. :-)

 

[Proy]

I’m going to do that at least 5 times tomorrow in the simulator, so it shouldn’t bother you. Happens all the time, and almost happened to me on landing just last night in Chicago. Sometimes, spacing is just too tight, aircraft land at different speeds and slow down at different rates, etc, etc...No biggie! Power up, suck up some flaps, gear up, climb speed, Bob’s your uncle...and come back around and do it again! ;-)

That happened to me once in a 757. The power that machine had was incredible. It felt like it still had stacks left in the tank as well!

 

[Scottyboi]

One pilot lost his mind. The other pilot couldn't see what the co-pilot was doing with his side stick until it was too late.

My uncle was meant to be that plane, failed his medical and retired.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

For anyone with a fear of flying, I would thoroughly recommend Air Crash Investigation. Cured my fear completely.

Some crashes kill all on board but some none and the pilots skills and composure in those are incredible. What this programme has taught me is that the airline industry learns from its errors and from accidents and takes steps to ensure they don’t happen again.

The deployment of the reverse thrust on a Lauda Air flight in the 80’s was something that freaked me out but watching that episode told me that changes were made and it now can’t happen (I hope!)

Stats also reassure me. The last fatal passenger crash involving a Flight in or out of the Uk was in 1989 unless I am mistaken. That is almost 30 years ago!

I the biggest risk to planes is from other things not in the control of the pilot - drones/terrorism/poor maintainance.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

If Air Data was different from the separate systems, any attempt at re-engaging the Autopilot would have failed.

Surely there is a method to recycle the AP system? That should clear any soft latch faults? if the ADC fault was intermittent (unlikely with a PS system blockage, but not impossible), then a reset would clear it temporarily.

Anyhow; I'm speculating. There are many reasons why this happened, and it is only when all the data is put together when investigators can say with a level of certainty why this happened.

 

[west didsblue]

Surely there is a method to recycle the AP system? That should clear any soft latch faults? if the ADC fault was intermittent (unlikely with a PS system blockage, but not impossible), then a reset would clear it temporarily.

Anyhow; I'm speculating. There are many reasons why this happened, and it is only when all the data is put together when investigators can say with a level of certainty why this happened.

The last thing a decent pilot would be doing is trying to get his autopilot working when he's got air data problems.

A failed autopilot should just be a minor inconvenience.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

The last thing a decent pilot would be doing is trying to get his autopilot working when he's got air data problems.

A failed autopilot should just be a minor inconvenience.

Like I said, I was speculating. I'm not a pilot, although I have been at the controls of a number of small fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft. My background is in AC engineering (electrical/avionic), although nothing too modern.

I don't know what their fault indications were, or their actions. The black box data and CVR will fill in the majority of the blanks, plus the wreckage could show any potential system fault/failure(s).

 

[west didsblue]

Like I said, I was speculating. I'm not a pilot, although I have been at the controls of a number of small fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft. My background is in AC engineering (electrical/avionic), although nothing too modern.

I don't know what their fault indications were, or their actions. The black box data and CVR will fill in the majority of the blanks, plus the wreckage could show any potential system fault/failure(s).

As you say, everything is speculation at the moment. I was just saying that a lack of autopilot availability would only be significant if the pilot was poorly trained and had little experience - which of course is a distinct possibility.