Are Labour a total shambles now as an opposition?

Jack Hackett said:
Might you actually read my comments instead of setting up straw men arguments solely it seems to affect self indulgent faux outrage?
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but your answer is to do nothing because the system won't take it - the sky will fall in and those you seek to help are feckless and undeserving anyway?
 
Jack Hackett said:
There is an optimum rate of tax that maximises revenue for the exchequer. Increasing beyond that actually reduces revenues because of the impact on growth as explained above.

As for the risible response on countries with a higher tax burden with greater growth, your failure to provide an example amply proves my point.

Economics is clearly not your strong suit
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You've got to be wumming. There's probably about 40 countries that tax more than the UK but have a faster growth rate. I didn't list them because I'd rather not waste my time with someone who's not very bright when you can do the research yourself. As a starting point though try:

1. France
2. Czech Republic
3. Belgium
4. Sweden
5. Finland
6. Slovenia
7. Austria
8. Greece
9. Netherlands
10. Luxembourg
11. Norway
12. Hungary
13. Germany

And many many more.

So next time you come on here with your nasty views based on right-wing myth and bullshit economics, do some research and you might not embarrass yourself as much. Happy new year.
 
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Fame Monster said:
You've got to be wumming. There's probably about 40 countries that tax more than the UK but have a faster growth rate. I didn't list them because I'd rather not waste my time with someone who's not very bright when you can do the research yourself. As a starting point though try:

1. France
2. Czech Republic
3. Belgium
4. Sweden
5. Finland
6. Latvia
7. Austria
8. Greece
9. Netherlands
10. Luxembourg
11. Norway
12. Hungary
13. Germany

And many many more.

So next time you come on here with your nasty views based on right-wing myth and bullshit economics, do some research and you might not embarrass yourself as much. Happy new year.
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What a load of hog wash

So much wrong with that

France GDP growth since 2012 has averaged 1% pa

UK GDP growth since 2012 has averaged 2.1% pa and in that time has never fallen below 1.5%pa

Czech Republic in same period averaged 2% pa whilst its tax burden is little different to the U.K.

Latvia has a much lower tax burden than the U.K. averaging GDP growth of 4%pa (see what low taxes can do for the economy?)

I could go on and on

You really don’t understand economics, do you?
 
Jack Hackett said:
What a load of hog wash

So much wrong with that

France GDP growth since 2012 has averaged 1% pa

UK GDP growth since 2012 has averaged 2.1% pa and in that time has never fallen below 1.5%pa

Czech Republic in same period averaged 2% pa whilst its tax burden is little different to the U.K.

Latvia has a much lower tax burden than the U.K. averaging GDP growth of 4%pa (see what low taxes can do for the economy?)

I could go on and on

You really don’t understand economics, do you?
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The Latvia example was wrong because I got to a point where I was just listing country after country because there are so many examples and the UK is almost bottom of the OECD growth list but below average in the tax burden list so I could have picked pretty much any European nation. The others are right (including France and Czech Republic) plus there's about 40 more countries that can take Latvia's place so the point definitely remains. Is the penny beginning to drop now or do you need more help?
 
Fame Monster said:
The Latvia example was wrong because I got to a point where I was just listing country after country because there are so many examples and the UK is almost bottom of the OECD growth list but below average in the tax burden list so I could have picked pretty much any European nation. The others are right (including France and Czech Republic) plus there's about 40 more countries that can take Latvia's place so the point definitely remains. Is the penny beginning to drop now or do you need more help?
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Taking 1 years GDP forecast is meaningless. You have to look at GDP growth over a period of time. So meaningless guff from you.

All roads lead back to Hitler? Looks like you've studied under Goebbels.
 
Jack Hackett said:
Taking 1 years GDP forecast is meaningless. You have to look at GDP growth over a period of time. So meaningless guff from you.

All roads lead back to Hitler? Looks like you've studied under Goebbels.
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You asked for an example. I gave you over a dozen and I can give you over a dozen more. If you want to make it over a 5 year period or 10 year period or however much you want to move the goalposts, there will still be examples of high-tax economies growing faster than lower-tax economies (and there will be examples of the opposite too).
Economics is a complicated science and so far you’ve proved you know nothing about it, and that your nasty, political views are based on a virulent, right-wing myth that higher taxes lead to lower growth, stagnation and recession.
 
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ganganvince said:
Reckon it might you know. I know you rate him but most don't anyway have a happy new year we will see how it plays out.
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I don't rate him as highly as you think, but if he goes it will be because he chooses to. No one on the left of the party wants him gone, no one on the right of the party can dislodge him.

There might well be an election next year, if there is he'll more than likely win it.

Happy New Year to you too.
 
Blue Hefner said:
It will also cost jobs if the small and medium size businesses, the ones that keep the country ticking over, have increased costs forcing already small margins down
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If you consistently have small margins, your business model needs amending.

If they're affected by tax or paying people more, why not raise prices as a percentage, that's acceptable to their customers, to offset any problems ahead?

salfordbluetrue said:
The Milibands those tory shits from Oxford university took Labour to a new low, and only a lunatic thinks you can improve pay or conditions with the huge pool of unskilled that we have
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I hope Labour runs a re-skills programme to give this country a creative skills based economy that made this country 'great' once upon a time!

There used to be countries jealous of GB, at one point!

urban genie said:
Labour are exactly as they were, niether a shambles or overly effective.

Corbyns error is his mistrust of the MSM and so has steered labour to campaign mainly at grass roots level and on social media, unfortunately, though this is effective, many people who still rely on the papers and bbc news etc are not reached.
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"Corbyns error is his mistrust of the MSM"????

Are you serious...?

How do you 'trust' a medium that chooses to misconstrue everything he does...?

MSM is old media, which will become apparent in the next couple of years.
 
Bigga said:
If you consistently have small margins, your business model needs amending.

If they're affected by tax or paying people more, why not raise prices as a percentage, that's acceptable to their customers, to offset any problems ahead?



I hope Labour runs a re-skills programme to give this country a creative skills based economy that made this country 'great' once upon a time!

There used to be countries jealous of GB, at one point!



"Corbyns error is his mistrust of the MSM"????

Are you serious...?

How do you 'trust' a medium that chooses to misconstrue everything he does...?

MSM is old media, which will become apparent in the next couple of years.
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Agreed.

Corbyn has prospered by ignoring the MSM, the MSM are out to get him regardless, nothing he can do will change that.

Flying over to Oz to suck Murdoch's shrivelled dick, as Blair did, was never an option for Corbyn.
 
Jack Hackett said:
What a load of hog wash

So much wrong with that

France GDP growth since 2012 has averaged 1% pa

UK GDP growth since 2012 has averaged 2.1% pa and in that time has never fallen below 1.5%pa

Czech Republic in same period averaged 2% pa whilst its tax burden is little different to the U.K.

Latvia has a much lower tax burden than the U.K. averaging GDP growth of 4%pa (see what low taxes can do for the economy?)

I could go on and on

You really don’t understand economics, do you?
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Is there a reason why you missed out three of the first six on his list? Perhaps they prove his point that you can have high growth with higher taxes? All it takes is being more community minded and developing the idea of the common good, and dropping the pejorative phrase "tax burden". When your mum wants cancer treatment, tax isn't a burden.
 
Bigga said:
If you consistently have small margins, your business model needs amending.

If they're affected by tax or paying people more, why not raise prices as a percentage, that's acceptable to their customers, to offset any problems ahead?



I hope Labour runs a re-skills programme to give this country a creative skills based economy that made this country 'great' once upon a time!

There used to be countries jealous of GB, at one point!



"Corbyns error is his mistrust of the MSM"????

Are you serious...?

How do you 'trust' a medium that chooses to misconstrue everything he does...?

MSM is old media, which will become apparent in the next couple of years.
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You missunderstand, his mistrust had led to a very stubborn attitude towrds engaging with them, fine I like they when they harrass him in the street he fucks them off, but limiting himself to maybe 3- 4 interviews a year, and leaving it to others give the MSM the chnce to consistently invite his enemies in the party to just come on and set a narrative that is the only viewpoint seen by many still, I mean why the fuck are we seeimg backbenchers like leslie and unman as main Labour interviewee when they are not the leadership?

Also throwing bergen, gardener, abbot out also isn't helpful as they are tied on knots at times.
McDonnell and thornbury are the only 2 that hold there own and tbf if I had to choose I would prefer either of them to Corbyn.


It's not about sucking up to murdoch, or any other news channel, bit a presence from the leader should be more prominent than a few outings on marr and ridgewell every quarter
 
urban genie said:
I mean why the fuck are we seeimg backbenchers like leslie and unman as main Labour interviewee when they are not the leadership?
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Indeed but im going to take a wild guess here and say its because of their very pro EU stance whilst the Leadership try to hide their anti EU stance.

Im with you though. Corbyn and co are almost anonymous and it isn't good enough given the state of politics in this country right now.
 
Vic said:
Is there a reason why you missed out three of the first six on his list? Perhaps they prove his point that you can have high growth with higher taxes? All it takes is being more community minded and developing the idea of the common good, and dropping the pejorative phrase "tax burden". When your mum wants cancer treatment, tax isn't a burden.
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I don’t have the time to check all the countries he listed but enough time to demonstrate the list was wrong in the ones I did look at

Listing countries proves nothing without the data which he failed to show (I wonder why? Because it’s wrong)

Why doesn’t he list for each country the average GDP growth over the past 6 years and compare that to the change in tax burden ( a common phrase used by economists - not pejorative)

Your point about tax being necessary to pay for public services is not at issue here - of course a level of tax is necessary but there is an optimum level that maximises revenues for the exchequer. Labours current policy of hiking taxes will be counter productive in reducing GDP and so resulting in lower levels of tax revenues for the exchequer

It is a basic fact that an increase in income tax results in lower take home pay meaning lower consumer spend meaning businesses that depend on it suffer a downturn resulting in lower GDP growth and higher job losses - all
of which are a feature of every Labour government in history leaving office with increased public debt and increased unemployment

Anyone stupid enough to swallow Corbyn’s lunatic policies for the economy are by definition economic illiterates
 
Fame Monster said:
You asked for an example. I gave you over a dozen and I can give you over a dozen more. If you want to make it over a 5 year period or 10 year period or however much you want to move the goalposts, there will still be examples of high-tax economies growing faster than lower-tax economies (and there will be examples of the opposite too).
Economics is a complicated science and so far you’ve proved you know nothing about it, and that your nasty, political views are based on a virulent, right-wing myth that higher taxes lead to lower growth, stagnation and recession.
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You gave no examples of anything merely a list of countries that a cursory check showed you were wrong

Stating the basic macro economic fact that increasing income tax takes demand out of the economy leading to reduced GDP is not ‘right wing’ or any other political perspective but a fact

So, publish the data and the sources for your list of countries and show the following

- average GDP growth over last 6 years compared to the change in the tax burden

Lastly, if there is a nasty party in politics it is now Corbyn’s Labour full of Jew hating scumbags and misogynists along with their fellow travelling Marxists, Leninists, Stalinists and Trots now allowed back into the party.

Socialism is an evil political philosophy responsible for over 100 million deaths in the 20th century and still killing people in Venezuela by Maduro’s death squads

Anyone buying into it us either brutally ignorant, supremely credulous or downright evil

Which is it for you?
 
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