Sajid Javid

Another useless ****, now using a minor issue to vie for a possible leadership chance.

Clueless **** who has no understanding of the situation.

More laughable was the bbc flying along the kent coast to show us how unprotected we are.. fuck off and behave.

It has been stated nearly 80% of those that have attemped to cross have family here as a reason and can prove it.
The next highest reason is that the secomd language after their own is English and feel lost in France where they strugle to find work because of this.
 
urban genie said:
Another useless ****, now using a minor issue to vie for a possible leadership chance.

Clueless **** who has no understanding of the situation.

More laughable was the bbc flying along the kent coast to show us how unprotected we are.. fuck off and behave.

It has been stated nearly 80% of those that have attemped to cross have family here as a reason and can prove it.
The next highest reason is that the secomd language after their own is English and feel lost in France where they strugle to find work because of this.
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If they can't get in legally and they enter illegally then they should be ushered out, we don't live in a world without borders and there are rules you have to follow not just arrive and then say your aunt Mavis lives here. The NGO's and people smugglers are rubbing their hands together at the weakness of Europe, nobody has a right to just break into a country and expect to stay.
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
If they can't get in legally and they enter illegally then they should be ushered out, we don't live in a world without borders and there are rules you have to follow not just arrive and then say your aunt Mavis lives here. The NGO's and people smugglers are rubbing their hands together at the weakness of Europe, nobody has a right to just break into a country and expect to stay.
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Not the point I was making.
These people have been processed in france amd some have got refugee/asylum staus, but that's it, they don't speak the langue, they have no fixed abode or meaningful work due to this barrier (and we are talking trained professionals like doctors and teachers univeraoty educated) and so see coming to an English speaking country, where most of the time relatives are already there, they see a better opportunity to live a decent life.

They can stay in france, but many are living on the street or in refuges, eating from the daily soup kitchens that provide food all along the french coast or can take a chance on trying to reach relatives and have somewhere to crash and then seek work/aslyum status in the UK and then contribute.

I have worked with ex refugees and asylum seekers, and they imediately looked for work, and workex hard and pay tax, once they were given the opportunity to by being accepted in.

Savid Javid has used a very small and not too regular set of events for political gain, eying up Mays job.
 
urban genie said:
Not the point I was making.
These people have been processed in france amd some have got refugee/asylum staus, but that's it, they don't speak the langue, they have no fixed abode or meaningful work due to this barrier (and we are talking trained professionals like doctors and teachers univeraoty educated) and so see coming to an English speaking country, where most of the time relatives are already there, they see a better opportunity to live a decent life.

They can stay in france, but many are living on the street or in refuges, eating from the daily soup kitchens that provide food all along the french coast or can take a chance on trying to reach relatives and have somewhere to crash and then seek work/aslyum status in the UK and then contribute.

I have worked with ex refugees and asylum seekers, and they imediately looked for work, and workex hard and pay tax, once they were given the opportunity to by being accepted in.

Savid Javid has used a very small and not too regular set of events for political gain, eying up Mays job.
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And that is the nub of it. Javid is saying that they are not genuine refugees or asylum seekers. They are economic migrants
who should not be allowed in and not allowed to stay. As oldtimer says - we do not live in a world without borders.
 
Bert Trautmanns Helemet said:
And that is the nub of it. Javid is saying that they are not genuine refugees or asylum seekers. They are economic migrants
who should not be allowed in and not allowed to stay. As oldtimer says - we do not live in a world without borders.
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However as the rules state that refugee's are not asylum seekers until that is officially decided - and not by the Home Sec who's job it is to defend the borders not make such decisions. There are obligations towards refugee's as part of our UN membership and transition from refugee to asylum seeker is a decision which follows a legal process. If the refugee's bid to be recognised as an asylum seeker fails then deportation is a possibility. As Urban Genie says Javid is exploiting the situation for his own potential gain as Maydays moment of doom approaches and he is doing so by declaring what status people do or don't have before they have even attempted to do anything.
 
urban genie said:
Not the point I was making.

These people have been processed in france amd some have got refugee/asylum staus, but that's it, they don't speak the langue, they have no fixed abode or meaningful work due to this barrier (and we are talking trained professionals like doctors and teachers univeraoty educated) and so see coming to an English speaking country, where most of the time relatives are already there, they see a better opportunity to live a decent life.

They can stay in france, but many are living on the street or in refuges, eating from the daily soup kitchens that provide food all along the french coast or can take a chance on trying to reach relatives and have somewhere to crash and then seek work/aslyum status in the UK and then contribute.

I have worked with ex refugees and asylum seekers, and they imediately looked for work, and workex hard and pay tax, once they were given the opportunity to by being accepted in.

Savid Javid has used a very small and not too regular set of events for political gain, eying up Mays job.
Click to expand...

If people have family here then why don't they just enter the UK legally then? We have trains, planes or you just drive here and enter via the border like everyone else. There are visas available which enable people to enter the UK completely legally on a family basis.

Just because you are a refugee it does not excuse you to break the law that the rest of us follow, the convention for refugees says refugees must follow the rule of law.

You cannot excuse someone entering the UK illegally because refugee status does not automatically grant you the unlimited freedom of movement anywhere in the world as you please and to exercise that right all you need is a boat....
 
urban genie said:
Not the point I was making.
These people have been processed in france amd some have got refugee/asylum staus, but that's it, they don't speak the langue, they have no fixed abode or meaningful work due to this barrier (and we are talking trained professionals like doctors and teachers univeraoty educated) and so see coming to an English speaking country, where most of the time relatives are already there, they see a better opportunity to live a decent life.

They can stay in france, but many are living on the street or in refuges, eating from the daily soup kitchens that provide food all along the french coast or can take a chance on trying to reach relatives and have somewhere to crash and then seek work/aslyum status in the UK and then contribute.

I have worked with ex refugees and asylum seekers, and they imediately looked for work, and workex hard and pay tax, once they were given the opportunity to by being accepted in.

Savid Javid has used a very small and not too regular set of events for political gain, eying up Mays job.
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They're illegals aren't they? It's even worse if they have entered France and been processed we aren't responsible for people living on the streets in France we have enough homeless of our own to worry about. There's a swing towards disregard for border control nowadays that's unwelcome at best.
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
They're illegals aren't they? It's even worse if they have entered France and been processed we aren't responsible for people living on the streets in France we have enough homeless of our own to worry about. There's a swing towards disregard for border control nowadays that's unwelcome at best.
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And the point of a border is to protect the people here and not the people that are coming here.

We should uphold our part in helping refugees but only on the basis that it is orderly, correct and legal. Fishing out migrants in the channel coming from France is none of those.
 
inbetween said:
And the point of a border is to protect the people here and not the people that are coming here.

We should uphold our part in helping refugees but only on the basis that it is orderly, correct and legal. Fishing out migrants in the channel coming from France is none of those.
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It's a tried and trusted method NGO's have used in Italy, for some reason governments are reluctant just to tow the ships back to where they came from hence preventing people from expecting to be picked up and brought to Britain in style.
What's worrying is that our own people are homeless but we seem to be finding accommodation for people entering illegally.
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
What's worrying is that our own people are homeless but we seem to be finding accommodation for people entering illegally.
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It's not a choice of one or the other though is it.

200 people attempting to cross the channel in 2 months is not a crisis, and the 5th biggest economy in the world should be able to address both it's homelessness problem and process asylum seekers accordingly, regardless of how they arrive.
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
It's a tried and trusted method NGO's have used in Italy, for some reason governments are reluctant just to tow the ships back to where they came from hence preventing people from expecting to be picked up and brought to Britain in style.
What's worrying is that our own people are homeless but we seem to be finding accommodation for people entering illegally.
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They put them in detention centres - indefinitely. The only form of UK detention which has no end date. In the year to March 2018 over 26k went through those centres and about 2.5k were still being detained in them. They are run by private companies and have a very poor record on inmate safety and treatment by the centre staff. You could place Britains homeless in there I suppose if that would make you and them happy but I guess the papers and Human Rights organisations would be all over it like flies on shit. Oh and it would draw even more attention to how shit these places are.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...d-brook-house-immigration-centre-claims-abuse

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tion-public-inquiry-home-office-a8363606.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tion-public-inquiry-home-office-a8363606.html

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-staff-foreign-national-held-prison-toothache

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...igrant-abuse-claims-detainees-removal-centres
 
inbetween said:
If people have family here then why don't they just enter the UK legally then? We have trains, planes or you just drive here and enter via the border like everyone else. There are visas available which enable people to enter the UK completely legally on a family basis.

Just because you are a refugee it does not excuse you to break the law that the rest of us follow, the convention for refugees says refugees must follow the rule of law.

You cannot excuse someone entering the UK illegally because refugee status does not automatically grant you the unlimited freedom of movement anywhere in the world as you please and to exercise that right all you need is a boat....
Click to expand...

Have you ever tried getting a visa for the UK ever or recenlty?

I have for imediate family to come over on holiday, and they were refused with a pretty pathetic reason, but then the HO got 300 quid for the visas and as May when as Home Home sec changed the rules so there is right of the right of appeal, another application of the same amount is needed.

It isn't as simple as just applying and getting in, we have no idea if some have tried, been refused but are at their wits end with the situation in france and so chance this crossing anyway.
 
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The trouble is your audience isn’t interested in facts that contradict their bigoted imagination.
 
urban genie said:
Have you ever tried getting a visa for the UK ever or recenlty?

I have for imediate family to come over on holiday, and tgey were refused with apretty pathetic reason, but then the FO got 300 quid for the visas and as May when as Home Home sec changed thw rules so there is right of the right of appeal, another application of the same amount is needed.

It isn't as simple as just applying and getting in, we hace no idea if some have tried, been refused but are at their wits end with the situation in france and so chance this crossing anyway.
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Eligibility is a completely different thing though, all that matters here is following legal process. Your family did but that doesn't mean because they were rejected they can just decide to come anyway does it?

I can't afford a Ferrari so would you allow me to just rob one instead?

Attempting to enter the UK other than through a recognised border is illegal even for eligible EU citizens because the UK is not a Schengen country. Even I as a UK citizen cannot enter the UK from outside of the UK legally without showing my passport or ID.

We have laws and rules for a reason and if the law is not applied to everyone then we may as well not have them and we will just be encouraging people to take the kind of stupid risks we have seen.
 
inbetween said:
Attempting to enter the UK other than through a recognised border is illegal even for eligible EU citizens because the UK is not a Schengen country. Even I as a UK citizen cannot enter the UK from outside of the UK legally without showing my passport or ID.
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*leaves house, drives for 5 and a half hours, enters UK without being required to show passport or ID*
 
aguero93:20 said:
*leaves house, drives for 5 and a half hours, enters UK without being required to show passport or ID*
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I was in the Jersey and went to france, and never shown a passport as I entered the EU from a non EU country, should I turn myself in as having illegaly crossed a border?
And then returned not showing a passport.

In fact when I returned to the UK from Jersey I never showed my passport, just went through a different lane.
 
denislawsbackheel said:
The trouble is your audience isn’t interested in facts that contradict their bigoted imagination.
Click to expand...
What is bigoted about border controls? If these people know that this country will allow anyone, from anywhere, to turn up illegally, then the numbers would be astronomical.
They are economic migrants, anyone fleeing persecution would claim asylum in the next safe country, not travel through dozens to get here.
Economic migrants are welcome to apply, through the correct channels.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
What is bigoted about border controls? If these people know that this country will allow anyone, from anywhere, to turn up illegally, then the numbers would be astronomical.
They are economic migrants, anyone fleeing persecution would claim asylum in the next safe country, not travel through dozens to get here.
Economic migrants are welcome to apply, through the English Channel.
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Edited for you
 
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