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Bloody Sunday: Soldier F faces murder charges
- Thread starter laughing gravy
- Start date
I'm eagerly waiting for the suspected perpetrators of the Birmingham and Manchester IRA bombings to face trial in the near future.
@Ric and @bluethrunthru do you think this will be happening any time soon?
Probably not. They should do though.
Probably not. They should do though.
But they won't will they?
And the reason why....... politics. It would be seen as a move jeopardising the 'peace' in NI.
As you know, I served in the Armed Forces. I'm in touch with many of my former colleagues and you wouldn't believe the level of anger over this hypocrisy.
BobKowalski
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I'm eagerly waiting for the suspected perpetrators of the Birmingham and Manchester IRA bombings to face trial in the near future.
@Ric and @bluethrunthru do you think this will be happening any time soon?
There are inquests due on the Birmingham bombings which the Govt seems to be handling with its usual grace and sensitivity.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/17/birmingham-ira-pub-bombs-families-threaten--boycott
There are inquests due on the Birmingham bombings which the Govt seems to be handling with its usual grace and sensitivity.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/17/birmingham-ira-pub-bombs-families-threaten--boycott
I'm not sure the Government have any say in what the inquest can cover.
However, the fact that the inquest will not look at who was responsible for this atrocity (even though it's fairly well known who did actually commit this act) is again, another example of the hypocrisy surrounding the whole Soldier F episode.
BobKowalski
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I'm not sure the Government have any say in what the inquest can cover.
However, the fact that the inquest will not look at who was responsible for this atrocity (even though it's fairly well known who did actually commit this act) is again, another example of the hypocrisy surrounding the whole Soldier F episode.
I was referring to the legal aid support for the bereaved families.
With regard to Soldier F it is also ‘well known’ from the second inquiry into Bloody Sunday who fired the fatal shots and yet the majority of soldiers are also not being prosecuted. Why this one soldier is being prosecuted and the rest are not will eventually be known and until we do know we cannot judge why this prosecution is taking place.
I was referring to the legal aid support for the bereaved families.
With regard to Soldier F it is also ‘well known’ from the second inquiry into Bloody Sunday who fired the fatal shots and yet the majority of soldiers are also not being prosecuted. Why this one soldier is being prosecuted and the rest are not will eventually be known and until we do know we cannot judge why this prosecution is taking place.
Agree on the legal aid matter.
I'm not questioning (at least on this occasion) why Soldier F is being prosecuted.
I'm questioning why people who are known to have committed terrorist acts aren't being prosecuted.
I get that some people think Soldier F should be prosecuted but what I don't get is that some of these same people do not see the hypocrisy on show and are seemingly not bothered about it.
the plasterer
Well-Known Member
Mate, my brother survived an I.R.A. bombing, can’t explain the anger he is feeling right now, went for a pint with him yesterday, one of his old fellow soldiers was in the pub, The pair of them are fuming to say the leastBut they won't will they?
And the reason why....... politics. It would be seen as a move jeopardising the 'peace' in NI.
As you know, I served in the Armed Forces. I'm in touch with many of my former colleagues and you wouldn't believe the level of anger over this hypocrisy.
BobKowalski
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- Joined
- 17 May 2007
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- 21,511
Agree on the legal aid matter.
I'm not questioning (at least on this occasion) why Soldier F is being prosecuted.
I'm questioning why people who are known to have committed terrorist acts aren't being prosecuted.
I get that some people think Soldier F should be prosecuted but what I don't get is that some of these same people do not see the hypocrisy on show and are seemingly not bothered about it.
Presumably they are not being prosecuted for the same reasons most of the soldiers are not being prosecuted in that the bar for achieving a successful prosecution is very high given the length of time involved and difficulties getting the necessary evidence etc.
This also presumes the evidence against soldier F does reach this high bar and I’ll say it again for the thousandth time until we know exactly why and on what basis/evidence he is being charged it is impossible to reach a judgement.
Right now one soldier is being charged. Not the dozen or so involved in the shootings. Nor, as far as I am aware, are we we prosecuting other soldiers involved in other shootings including those involved in the shooting of unarmed IRA members so personally I am inclined to dial back on the outrage especially as we are still unaware of the circumstances and evidence involved in the soldier F case.
B
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blueinsa
Guest
Presumably they are not being prosecuted for the same reasons most of the soldiers are not being prosecuted in that the bar for achieving a successful prosecution is very high given the length of time involved and difficulties getting the necessary evidence etc.
This also presumes the evidence against soldier F does reach this high bar and I’ll say it again for the thousandth time until we know exactly why and on what basis/evidence he is being charged it is impossible to reach a judgement.
Right now one soldier is being charged. Not the dozen or so involved in the shootings. Nor, as far as I am aware, are we we prosecuting other soldiers involved in other shootings including those involved in the shooting of unarmed IRA members so personally I am inclined to dial back on the outrage especially as we are still unaware of the circumstances and evidence involved in the soldier F case.
No they are not being prosecuted because of deals made between the government and Sinn Fein as part of the GFA.
Similar deals will no doubt have been made between the government and loyalist terrorists.
Its an utter disgrace our government now feels its right and in the publics interest as well as the GFA to prosecute soldiers.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
I'm eagerly waiting for the suspected perpetrators of the Birmingham and Manchester IRA bombings to face trial in the near future.
@Ric and @bluethrunthru do you think this will be happening any time soon?
If they can be found they would. Unfortunately cack handed illegal efforts by the Police at the time have doubtless meant that will not happen sadly
If they can be found they would. Unfortunately cack handed illegal efforts by the Police at the time have doubtless meant that will not happen sadly
Chris Mullin knows the identity of "The Young Bomber" involved in the Birmingham pub bombings. As he does, I'm fairly sure the police do too. Why isn't he being prosecuted?
The police know who carried out the Manchester bombing. A decision was taken to not prosecute them as they were already in custody. They have all been released since. Why aren't they being prosecuted?
Tbf, I can understand where people are coming from in terms of convicted terrorists having been released under the terms of the GFA, which is why I think it’s difficult to say what punishment is appropriate if he was found guilty. In that respect I don’t think it’s quite comparable to the examples you give. It’s a fairly unique, highly sensitive, situation.
I agree that the army cannot be given a get out jail card which makes them immune from prosecution. I can remember the indignation that I felt, growing up, when US soldiers committed atrocities in Vietnam and escaped with slaps on the wrist.
I think the indignation regarding Soldier F is more because many felt that a line had been drawn as a result of the GFA and we were "moving on"
I've always thought that the people with the most blood on their hands regarding NI were the likes of Adams, Paisley & McGuiness. It would seriously piss me off if Soldier F were to be prosecuted and it were subsequently to emerge that the authorities had enough evidence to prosecute Adams, for example, for a serious crime but declined to do so for political reasons.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Chris Mullin knows the identity of "The Young Bomber" involved in the Birmingham pub bombings. As he does, I'm fairly sure the police do too. Why isn't he being prosecuted?
The police know who carried out the Manchester bombing. A decision was taken to not prosecute them as they were already in custody. They have all been released since. Why aren't they being prosecuted?
I have no idea why? Maybe ask your MP or the relevant authorities who could probably tell you rather than me who can't?
I have no idea why? Maybe ask your MP or the relevant authorities who could probably tell you rather than me who can't?
So you agree there is hypocrisy on show here then?
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
So you agree there is hypocrisy on show here then?
there could be - I don't know the voracity of the claims you made regarding Mullin etc nor do any of us know whether he does know any truth and whether he has been questioned by the Police about it and whether the information he has is actually of any use to them for any prosecution of him and / or anyone else in connection with the events in question. There's a whiff of hypocrisy but nothing concrete.
BobKowalski
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No they are not being prosecuted because of deals made between the government and Sinn Fein as part of the GFA.
Similar deals will no doubt have been made between the government and loyalist terrorists.
Its an utter disgrace our government now feels its right and in the publics interest as well as the GFA to prosecute soldiers.
One. One soldier. And given the authorities will be inclined to want to do what they did with the rest of the soldiers (and pretty much anyone else in the conflict) and that’s not have a trial and reopen old wounds it does beg the question what was it about the soldier F case that even they felt they had to bring charges.
B
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blueinsa
Guest
If they can be found they would. Unfortunately cack handed illegal efforts by the Police at the time have doubtless meant that will not happen sadly
Downy was found and charged for the Hyde Park bombings only for the trial to be stopped because of a political agreement between the government and Sinn Fein.
This is one example of why people are rightly outraged by this prosecution.
Machiavelli
Well-Known Member
So if the IRA suspects were to be charged and brought to trial would the ex armed forces on here still disagree with soldier F facing potential punishment?
It seems you’re conflating two separate but related issues here.
It seems you’re conflating two separate but related issues here.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
So if the IRA suspects were to be charged and brought to trial would the ex armed forces on here still disagree with soldier F facing potential punishment?
It seems you’re conflating two separate but related issues here.
No answers?