Madeleine McCann

[Prestwich_Blue]

Every time you read something else about this case you find out more and the doubts grow. For instance, at first I believed their claim that they could see the apartment and anyone going in and out from the Tapas Bar. But they couldn't as it was obscured by trees and a wall. Then it turned out that they went in and out via the sliding patio doors, which couldn't be locked from the outside so had to be kept unlocked. And these doors were on the far side of the apartment so definitely couldn't be seen from where they were.

They then claimed the window had been forced open, which was easily disproven. Why didn't they mention the patio doors at the time? Could they have been trying to cover up the fact they'd been completely negligent and lying about being able to see the apartment or was it something more sinister? Then there's the friend, Jane Tanner, who gave a statement about walking somewhere during that evening. Gerry had claimed he was talking to someone after checking on the kids yet Tanner must have walked eight past him in a passageway and didn't see him. Someone's either badly mistaken or lying.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Every day these poor parents have to live with the fact they left their little girl alone while they enjoyed themselves nearby.

They are living a daily death sentence I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

They are guilty of nothing more than selfishness and negligence and have paid the ultimate price.

I hope one day they find closure.

Very well said, Tolm.

Some folk seem incapable of distinguishing between true evil and people who simply fall short.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

The only people I feel sorry for are Madeline, the twins and the people who got caught up in a witch-hunt such as Robert Murat and Sergey Malinka.

The parents left their children to get wasted, if I had kids that age I wouldn't leave them alone to go the local corner shop for 5 minutes nevermind in a foreign country, especially when there's a night crèche

Should've been prosecuted for neglect

Neglect still isn't murder though. As a parent of a little girl myself, outside of the agreed negligence, they get up every day thinking, what if, how, where?

That's purgatory for anyone who has to accept their own share of guilt on top of not knowing what happened, or if she is alive or dead.

It's heartbreaking, nothing more.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Neglect still isn't murder though. As a parent of a little girl myself, outside of the agreed negligence, they get up every day thinking, what, if, how, where?

That's purgatory for anyone who has to accept their own share of guilt on top of not knowing what happened, or if she is alive or dead.

It's heartbreaking, nothing more.

Not quite sure where I said neglect is murder.
You can be damn well sure if they weren't white, middle class people they would've been far less fortunate in getting away with no charges of neglect

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Every time you read something else about this case you find out more and the doubts grow. For instance, at first I believed their claim that they could see the apartment and anyone going in and out from the Tapas Bar. But they couldn't as it was obscured by trees and a wall. Then it turned out that they went in and out via the sliding patio doors, which couldn't be locked from the outside so had to be kept unlocked. And these doors were on the far side of the apartment so definitely couldn't be seen from where they were.

They then claimed the window had been forced open, which was easily disproven. Why didn't they mention the patio doors at the time? Could they have been trying to cover up the fact they'd been completely negligent and lying about being able to see the apartment or was it something more sinister? Then there's the friend, Jane Tanner, who gave a statement about walking somewhere during that evening. Gerry had claimed he was talking to someone after checking on the kids yet Tanner must have walked eight past him in a passageway and didn't see him. Someone's either badly mistaken or lying.

'Tanner man' was corroborated later on as a man carrying his daughter on crimewatch I believe.
Another lead dead and still no evidence that she was abducted

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

'Tanner man' was corroborated later on as a man carrying his daughter on crimewatch I believe.
Another lead dead and still no evidence that she was abducted

This was different. If both her & Gerry were telling the truth, she must have walked past him, in a narrow area, and neither saw the other.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Not quite sure where I said neglect is murder.
You can be damn well sure if they weren't white, middle class people they would've been far less fortunate in getting away with no charges of neglect

You didn't, was just in the wider thread accusations the parents were behind her disappearance/possible murder.

You might well be right on your second point, although I would hope wider humanity discerned any parent would have suffered enough by that stage.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

This was different. If both her & Gerry were telling the truth, she must have walked past him, in a narrow area, and neither saw the other.

Interesting, they allegedly refused to participate in a reconstruction of the crime back then put forward by the Portuguese police. Makes you wonder if they were worried there stories wouldn't hold water

You didn't, was just in the wider thread accusations the parents were behind her disappearance/possible murder.

You might well be right on your second point, although I would hope wider humanity discerned any parent would have suffered enough by that stage.

It is possible to think they could be guilty of both. There's not enough evidence to convict them of foul play and I certainly wouldn't do so if I was on a panel of prosecutors, however that might differ from my personal views.
Neglect however, well there's all the proof in the world for that. This 'suffered enough' narrative really winds me up because it seems to discount one quite important person who actually will have suffered far worse most likely, Madeline.

 

[Machiavelli]

hahaha.

Well they do them on Jeremy Kyle so they must be kosher!

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

This 'suffered enough' narrative really winds me up because it seems to discount one quite important person who actually will have suffered far worse most likely, Madeline.

No it doesn't. ridiculous thing to suggest. Sympathy isn't subject to Rationing, or at least it shouldn't be.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

No it doesn't. ridiculous thing to suggest. Sympathy isn't subject to Rationing, or at least it shouldn't be.

Not really. Their selfishness caused their daughter to likely suffer unimiginable things if she was actually abducted, in comparison to them feeling guilt or shame over their actions.
It's akin to feeling sorry for a drunk driver who killed a family member or someone close to them

 

[nellyonthewing]

Never ever left my kids alone and they came to no harm .

 

[shevtheblue]

Neglect still isn't murder though. As a parent of a little girl myself, outside of the agreed negligence, they get up every day thinking, what if, how, where?

That's purgatory for anyone who has to accept their own share of guilt on top of not knowing what happened, or if she is alive or dead.

It's heartbreaking, nothing more.

I have never once seen them admit that they neglected their duties as parents, it happens to everyone at moments but their mistakes, at the very least, were part of what has potentially happened here. Everyone's different and deal with grief differently but i have only ever seen interviews on them saying what they did was normal (like being in the garden while your kids are inside the house etc). I know i couldn't look anyone in the eye and would be racked with guilt, and it would be pretty fucking clear to everyone. Again that doesn't mean their guilty, but it's not normal IMO.

EDIT: there may be interviews i haven't seen where they admit it and are more open.

 

[Henkeman]

Just google ‘mccann theories inconsistencies’, mate.

I don't think I will - as I said, it's not something I particularly wish to waste my time over. It's not proof of anything of course, but it would be a bit odd. Equally, I do find it also a bit strange how much time some people invest in this whole topic. Their choice of course, but I shall bail out now, while expressing my regards and respects!

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I have never once seen them admit that they neglected their duties as parents, it happens to everyone at moments but their mistakes, at the very least, were part of what has potentially happened here. Everyone's different and deal with grief differently but i have only ever seen interviews on them saying what they did was normal (like being in the garden while your kids are inside the house etc). I know i couldn't look anyone in the eye and would be racked with guilt, and it would be pretty fucking clear to everyone. Again that doesn't mean their guilty, but it's not normal IMO.

EDIT: there may be interviews i haven't seen where they admit it and are more open.

Kate has accepted that they shouldn't have left her alone and that she regrets that. I think that type of behaviour on holiday is (or rather was) more common than is widely appreciated.

They must accept some responsibility for what happened, as much as a parent driving their car carelessly and having an accident and killing their child is responsible. We all drive carelessly from time to time, even when our kids are in the car. Doesn't mean in those circumstances the parent isn't deserving of sympathy.

 

[Machiavelli]

Brian Kennedy
https://www.oxygen.com/martinis-mur...how-are-they-involved-in-the-madeleine-mccann

Cheers bud.

Not that the Portuguese Police did it, they just know about the organised crime gang/paedophile ring which are most likely associated with organised crime and were covering their tracks for them.

The Police were absolutely terrible in their investigations from the moment they arrived. To the point of scandal IMO.

Have you seen the film The Whistleblower? Or know if the story behind it? Have you heard of those sick bastards at Oxfam who were involved in that paedophile ring in Haiti? don’t underestimate how high up this sort of thing can go or how seemingly helpful organisations can be behind them or covering them.

I agree there’s paedos everywhere. I’ll have to check out the whistleblower film as I’ve never heard of it.

Kate is a pal of Esther McVey and Gordon Brown appointed Gerry as an advisor to a panel looking at the risks of living near nuclear plants. It's also alleged that the Foreign Office ordered the local diplomatic staff to provide every assistance to the McCanns, even after some of those staff were very dubious about inconsistencies in the McCann's story and made this clear to the FCO.

Cheers for that, it explains the unique way this has been handled.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

It's akin to feeling sorry for a drunk driver who killed a family member or someone close to them

I think someone needs to introduce you to the twin concepts of risk and foreseeability.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

What were their main inconsistencies, or where would I find them?

The issue with all the BS around this case is that much of it is secondhand information that came from Portuguese investigations and with interpreters involved - and that is assuming it is not further exaggerated by the press who have been shameless in dragging this case and the family up at every opportunity for all the wrong reasons.

The most convincing evidence in this case is in relation to what is not feasibly possible. Maddie went missing some time between 6ish and 10, but the McCanns were with the group of friends from just after 8. So there is a max 2 and half hour window where if they had any involvement something happened. That window of time is early evening, its light, they have two other children. They had no car and this is a busy holiday resort, there are no witnesses that saw them outside the resort. What exactly can they have done in that window of time where the body would never be found? There is no conceivable way that they could do this and get away with it.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I think one of the key issues here in terms of people's perceptions of the McCann's is both their dispositions, which are (collectively and individually) unfortunate and unhelpful.

They are very difficult people to warm to.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

I think someone needs to introduce you to the twin concepts of risk and foreseeability.

Going out and getting smashed while leaving your apartment supposedly unlocked with your 3 kids inside doesn't seem like an appropriate amount of risk to me.