Var debate 2019/20

jonmcity said:
We will see the benefit of VAR in the long run.
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Agreed, but it’s difficult to appreciate that right now!

In particular, it takes the absolute piss that the dippers put us out last season largely because of the absence of VAR, and spuds have put us out this season largely because of the presence of VAR.
 
sheepskin_tearaway said:
The weakness of VAR is this:

I was at the match so may be wrong, but to me Son looked clearly offside just before he won the corner prior to spuds’ 3rd goal. Even if it turns out he was onside, bear with me and assume he was offside because it would play out the same. The linesman didn’t put his flag up, because they have been directed not to, and to let the move play out.

So if son takes it round ederson and scores, VAR rules it out.

When ederson gets there first and it goes out for a corner, VAR doesn’t come into play.

Corner comes in, ederson gets a hand on it, corner other side. Corner comes in, goal.

But pre-VAR it would never have got that far because Son would have been given offside initially.
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He wasn’t offside.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
The problem with VAR reminds me of a period a few seasons ago when we were going through a period of quite a lot of bad decisions and disallowed goals (hard to imagine, I know). I found myself reigning in my celebrations because I wasn't sure if it would be disallowed. It kinda kills the moment. But ultimately, I'd still rather have that and get the right decisions than the alternative.
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I remember feeling the same over that period but it was only a few months...we are stuck with never being able to celebrate a goal properly again.
 
sheepskin_tearaway said:
The weakness of VAR is this:

I was at the match so may be wrong, but to me Son looked clearly offside just before he won the corner prior to spuds’ 3rd goal. Even if it turns out he was onside, bear with me and assume he was offside because it would play out the same. The linesman didn’t put his flag up, because they have been directed not to, and to let the move play out.

So if son takes it round ederson and scores, VAR rules it out.

When ederson gets there first and it goes out for a corner, VAR doesn’t come into play.

Corner comes in, ederson gets a hand on it, corner other side. Corner comes in, goal.

But pre-VAR it would never have got that far because Son would have been given offside initially.
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Thought he was at the time but having watched it back he was about 3 yards onside
 
Nails said:
Son's goal in the first leg was NOT offside. Arms are not considered in the offside law.
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How about shoulders?

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I read a lot of this thread yesterday but not caught up.

So now we are all clear that the ball brushed his arm and then the final touch that propelled the ball forward was from his hip.

If the ref sees the hand ball would he give the goal? Last night I thought that from next season the rule changes so that this would be disallowed but now the goal is legitimate. Apart from Mark Halsey above comment has thete been any other refs commenting on this?
 
Unfortunately for us, the rules regarding goals scored by accidental handball are changing next season, so if this game happened next year, that goal is ruled out.

Last year we were a year too early for VAR, this year a year too early for handball goals. Just our luck, eh?

The end hurt last night but it was fair because it was offside. If we had just gone out to an offside goal we would be fuming.

This was always going to happen to someone, and typical city it happened to us. We will go down in history for last night in a tragic way.

Not bothered though if we win the league.
 
balotelli's back pocket said:
Unfortunately for us, the rules regarding goals scored by accidental handball are changing next season, so if this game happened next year, that goal is ruled out.

Last year we were a year too early for VAR, this year a year too early for handball goals. Just our luck, eh?

The end hurt last night but it was fair because it was offside. If we had just gone out to an offside goal we would be fuming.

This was always going to happen to someone, and typical city it happened to us. We will go down in history for last night in a tragic way.

Not bothered though if we win the league.
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They've already changed.
 
VAR’s primary function was to eliminate the obvious mistakes.

However, there’s no going back, so once you disallow goals similar to the infamous late Dortmund winner against Malaga in 2013, or cancel the offside flag when United were robbed against Porto in 2004, then what do you do with the mistakes that are less obvious?

How many times have you seen a goal like the Aguero diving header at Swansea, whereby no defenders appeal for offside, and the commentators only notice after the 3rd replay? I can think of at least 6 this season without even trying, (and that’s just the City games)

That's a lot of disallowed goals, and two mutually exclusive sets of rules, depending on whether VAR is present.

For the Schalke and Tottenham games combined, we had 11 VAR delays, and at least 4 of them are still debatable.

Regardless of whether it will improve, VAR will ultimately destroy the matchday experience by diluting the main reason why we attend: the joy of celebrating a goal.
 
Spurs fan in peace.

Firstly, I think your players were absolutely amazing last night. You were the better team and probably should have won.

On the flip side, we do not have your resources, and had our star man missing. We only had 2 fit centre midfielders (although Wanyama is barely fit at all), and one of those went off injured.

Our players showed amazing fight and spirit to even compete against you.

It is a crying shame that some of your fans wish to solely blame VAR. If you were on the other side of those decisions you wouldn’t be seeing things this way.

OK, so if it brushed Llorente’s arm, was his arm in an unnatural position? That is the current rule. You were happy to get a penalty for Rose’s block? The goal was given, and I cannot say there was a ‘clear and obvious error’ to overturn it. Most angles are not even conclusive!

The offside was offside. This is a line decision. It can’t be disputed.

I feel like your old school fans are taking it like men, but maybe the new fans you have attracted are the ones who sound like the victimised Scousers.

Your team is amazing and you lost a really tight game. Be proud. Don’t just blame VAR and UEFA - you are a better club than that.
 
Dan B said:
Spurs fan in peace.

Firstly, I think your players were absolutely amazing last night. You were the better team and probably should have won.

On the flip side, we do not have your resources, and had our star man missing. We only had 2 fit centre midfielders (although Wanyama is barely fit at all), and one of those went off injured.

Our players showed amazing fight and spirit to even compete against you.

It is a crying shame that some of your fans wish to solely blame VAR. If you were on the other side of those decisions you wouldn’t be seeing things this way.

OK, so if it brushed Llorente’s arm, was his arm in an unnatural position? That is the current rule. You were happy to get a penalty for Rose’s block? The goal was given, and I cannot say there was a ‘clear and obvious error’ to overturn it. Most angles are not even conclusive!

The offside was offside. This is a line decision. It can’t be disputed.

I feel like your old school fans are taking it like men, but maybe the new fans you have attracted are the ones who sound like the victimised Scousers.

Your team is amazing and you lost a really tight game. Be proud. Don’t just blame VAR and UEFA - you are a better club than that.
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Look at the video 4 post up.

Hand ball. Ref not shown the correct replay.
Well done for your gracious post. But you are factually incorrect.
 
I thought the VAR decisions were correct, but I never wanted it introduced in the first place.

The majority of the moaners on here are the same ones that wanted it introduced last year. At some point you've got to stop looking to blame external influences and look at the decisions of the manager and the performances of the players. Last night was an excellent performance, admittedly not perfect - but it should have been enough. The deficit from the the first leg and individual errors in both meant Tottenham were always in the game.

We've now won 4 knock out ties in 8 years, and those came against Kyiv, PSG, Basel, and Schalke. That is unacceptable with the talent we've had at our disposal in that time. In each of Guardiola's seasons, we've been knocked out because he and the players fucked up the first leg. He's a wonderful manager and we have wonderful players but we need to address our own issues and stop looking for excuses.
 
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