Var debate 2019/20

s1ty m said:
This is it, in a nutshell.

VAR does not remove the fragility of the human eye...and the ability of humans to see what either they want to see or are told to see. It is, therefore, completely and utterly flawed.
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.... Or the fragility of the human wallet.
 
RedLar said:
When you lost last years CL tie to Liverpool, salah was clearly offside for the first goal at Anfield. VAR would have rightly ruled him offside. You all would have been happy. The Milner deflection- 2nd leg - VAR would have given the goal to Sane. People were wishing they had VAR.

You were all happy you got a pen in the first leg vs Spurs, and I doubt anyone complained about VAR then, even if it was a poor decision. The 3rd Spurs goal last night would have been harsh if disallowed. Goes in off his hip. Aguerro was offside. Unlucky, but correct decision. I wasn't arsed about who won. Correct decisions were made. Whether VAR is any good for the game is debateable.

VAR has changed the game for better or for worse, just like billion dollar owners have. A 90 page thread on the merits of VAR. if you'd won, this thread would not exist. Simple.
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It's not about whether you find VAR good or bad based on if it gets a correct decission that goes against you.
It's that a VAR decission goes against you that is wholely incorrect as Llorentes goal was.
I have no issue with the Segio offside, under the crazy rules for offside VAR judged correctly, but that goal would have been academic and not important if spurs 3rd was ruled out correctly.
VARs biggest and ultimate failiure is unlike goal line tech or hawleye in cricket it rellies on final judgement still with the ref, and on this occassion the ref was not given all the facts so gave the benefit to the striker.

It failed to it's job, simple as that.

Also on a side imagine if VAR was in prem now next last game at anfield you are going for your first prem title and score an aguero momment type goaln place is bounccing everyone is in a high emotional state, then you have to wait 5 mins and they dissallow the goal, it's absolutely emotionally depressing.

I was all in favour of it and defending it but we are not rugby or cricket , games that stagger along with stops in play, football is a low scoring game of instant momments and the emotion that goes with it, from my experience on wednesday VAR kills that emotion and feeling and is not suited to the game.

Cannot believe I am agreeing with colin wanker but rather have the mistakes and humam error and a moan about it after than VAR and still human error, which also kills the emotion of the game
 
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I love it, I think it adds to the drama. There will still be contentious decisions, but generally there'll be less big mistakes, which is a good thing.

Regarding Wednesday, I don't think Llorente's goal should be classed as handball, as it was completely unintentional, but based on what we've seen given in the CL this season (Otamendi, Kimpembe, etc) I'm disappointed it wasn't as the rule seemed to be if it hits your arm in the box it's a foul.

As for Sergio, by the letter of the current law, it was correctly ruled offside. However, I've argued for ages that the offside law is ridiculous. It shouldn't matter if someone's toe or left knee is offside, that sort of margin makes no difference. The law was created to stop goal hanging. I'm not sure what the exact solution is, but I would suggest that changing it to "if any part of you is onside, then you are onside". That way, realistically, you have to be a yard ahead of the defender to be given offside, which would remove the majority of instances where someone who isn't trying to goal hang is given offside because of miniscule timing differences.

As for VAR ruling it out and spoiling the fun. I'd much rather have has those celebrations and then the deflation that followed than the linesman stick his flag up straight away. Football is about tension, drama and the emotions that come with them and we got a boat load of that on Wednesday night. It went against us this time, but sometimes it will. I bet it was brilliant in the Spurs end when that decision flashed up, they went crazy, which wouldn't have happened if the linesman had simply raised his flag.
 
VAR will kill football for match going fans and could even be trouble in the making ?? for bringing back crowd violence with to much drama to handle

VAR was talked into football for bringing clear and obvious mistakes by the referee and officials they make in the games ?? the close calls should still be still be aloud by the game officials ?? a cm or inch with a body part in offside or not offside should never be judged ?? and can a tv camera be 100% correct and inline and when the ball is kicked ??? also can a tv camera show intent or violet contact or hand ball ????

BUT AFTER SPURS WIN can VAR really be justified to be clear and obvious right and be trusted in the wrong hands ??? clearly a video clip was made available to the referee that was the wrong clip to watch, and somebody in the VAR team knew what they was doing in holding back the right clip or showing it to the referee ???? trust in UEFA and their officials ?? well we have seen what trust can be with UEFA and how many have cheated and been found out ???

the premier league will be opening a can of worms with VAR next season and with the old rules and new rule in handball its going to be murder, and the fans will be but to the test in can we really trust the officials running the system ????
 
RedLar said:
When you lost last years CL tie to Liverpool, salah was clearly offside for the first goal at Anfield. VAR would have rightly ruled him offside. You all would have been happy. The Milner deflection- 2nd leg - VAR would have given the goal to Sane. People were wishing they had VAR.

You were all happy you got a pen in the first leg vs Spurs, and I doubt anyone complained about VAR then, even if it was a poor decision. The 3rd Spurs goal last night would have been harsh if disallowed. Goes in off his hip. Aguerro was offside. Unlucky, but correct decision. I wasn't arsed about who won. Correct decisions were made. Whether VAR is any good for the game is debateable.

VAR has changed the game for better or for worse, just like billion dollar owners have. A 90 page thread on the merits of VAR. if you'd won, this thread would not exist. Simple.
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67b8b862d4941e5e2a4cd975eb636137.jpg
 
Metalartin said:
Sorry that's not true, the replay I gave you shows the ball makes two movements, one of the elbow, one off the hip. "That proves it's significance" because the final trajectory has changed completely by the inclusion of the elbow. Also the reason the ref missed it is because he wasn't given that angle, have you not been keeping up with the thread? All of this has been discussed and most are in agreement it should not have stood.
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Dont feed the troll
 
Ancoats . You make a good point about violence perhaps creeping back into the game,, it's the reason no ref or whoever is controlling the game would disallow a Madrid, Barca, Milan etc goal in the 92min at home after a comeback like that Wednesday.
 
RedLar said:
When you lost last years CL tie to Liverpool, salah was clearly offside for the first goal at Anfield. VAR would have rightly ruled him offside. You all would have been happy. The Milner deflection- 2nd leg - VAR would have given the goal to Sane. People were wishing they had VAR.

You were all happy you got a pen in the first leg vs Spurs, and I doubt anyone complained about VAR then, even if it was a poor decision. The 3rd Spurs goal last night would have been harsh if disallowed. Goes in off his hip. Aguerro was offside. Unlucky, but correct decision. I wasn't arsed about who won. Correct decisions were made. Whether VAR is any good for the game is debateable.

VAR has changed the game for better or for worse, just like billion dollar owners have. A 90 page thread on the merits of VAR. if you'd won, this thread would not exist. Simple.
Click to expand...
 
RedLar said:
When you lost last years CL tie to Liverpool, salah was clearly offside for the first goal at Anfield. VAR would have rightly ruled him offside. You all would have been happy. The Milner deflection- 2nd leg - VAR would have given the goal to Sane. People were wishing they had VAR.

You were all happy you got a pen in the first leg vs Spurs, and I doubt anyone complained about VAR then, even if it was a poor decision. The 3rd Spurs goal last night would have been harsh if disallowed. Goes in off his hip. Aguerro was offside. Unlucky, but correct decision. I wasn't arsed about who won. Correct decisions were made. Whether VAR is any good for the game is debateable.

VAR has changed the game for better or for worse, just like billion dollar owners have. A 90 page thread on the merits of VAR. if you'd won, this thread would not exist. Simple.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure what you’re trying to achieve by pointing out how much we’ve been shafted in this competition in the last two years
 
gavvo said:
We can all look for all sorts of reasons. But the fact is no VAR we are through. If they were clear and obvious errors we would accept it. They weren't.
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We don't make those mistakes and we're through.
 
The referee was given a SPLIT SCREEN with 2 views of the Llorente handball. The one that everyone admits was harder to tell was the face on version. That was on the LEFT side of the split screen. The second, from the side, where the “elbow ball” was much clearer, was on the RIGHT side of the split screen.

The ref spent an age simply tracing the flight of the ball on the LEFT side of the screen, where is was inconclusive, while NOT EVEN LOOKING AT THE RIGHT SIDE. Then, as he appears ready to look at the RIGHT side of the screen, the split screen disappears and the LEFT SIDE becomes the whole screen.

He simply shrugs his shoulders, turns around, and awards the goal.

Saddest part is that Llorente knows he handled it. While the ref is looking, they flash over to him telling another Spurs player, and he has a seriously worried look on his face. Wouldn’t have that if he had nothing to worry about, would he?! Then, he has the over-excited celebration when the ref gives it anyway.

Pep has said repeatedly that City favor VAR because they want the game to be fair, and a goal to be a goal. I have no problem with that.

However, when EVEN THE VAR VIDEO SHOWS THE HANDBALL and it isn’t given, then where do you go from there.

I know that everyone thinks that ref is great (or did), but I’ll always thought he was a quirky little fucker. Now, I’m not sure if he is blind, stupid or just bent?

This loss has been harder to take than any I can remember in a very long time, perhaps since the Nasri derby free kick wall disaster, or Scholes derby header. Today has been a fucking miserable day going over all this again.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
I know that everyone thinks that ref is great (or did), but I’ll always thought he was a quirky little fucker. Now, I’m not sure if he is blind, stupid or just bent?
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Even after the contretemps with Mario, I'd take this ref every week, home and away, over and above the gaggle of whistling wankers we normally get. There was little I could complain about. He is just another one, like most of the fans, who are hamstrung on the way VAR is used, misused and abused by the people who 'govern' the game!
 
ChicagoBlue said:
The referee was given a SPLIT SCREEN with 2 views of the Llorente handball. The one that everyone admits was harder to tell was the face on version. That was on the LEFT side of the split screen. The second, from the side, where the “elbow ball” was much clearer, was on the RIGHT side of the split screen.

The ref spent an age simply tracing the flight of the ball on the LEFT side of the screen, where is was inconclusive, while NOT EVEN LOOKING AT THE RIGHT SIDE. Then, as he appears ready to look at the RIGHT side of the screen, the split screen disappears and the LEFT SIDE becomes the whole screen.

He simply shrugs his shoulders, turns around, and awards the goal.

Saddest part is that Llorente knows he handled it. While the ref is looking, they flash over to him telling another Spurs player, and he has a seriously worried look on his face. Wouldn’t have that if he had nothing to worry about, would he?! Then, he has the over-excited celebration when the ref gives it anyway.

Pep has said repeatedly that City favor VAR because they want the game to be fair, and a goal to be a goal. I have no problem with that.

However, when EVEN THE VAR VIDEO SHOWS THE HANDBALL and it isn’t given, then where do you go from there.

I know that everyone thinks that ref is great (or did), but I’ll always thought he was a quirky little fucker. Now, I’m not sure if he is blind, stupid or just bent?

This loss has been harder to take than any I can remember in a very long time, perhaps since the Nasri derby free kick wall disaster, or Scholes derby header. Today has been a fucking miserable day going over all this again.
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Cannot argue with any of that CB, however it's favour not favor ;-)
 
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader said:
Even after the contretemps with Mario, I'd take this ref every week, home and away, over and above the gaggle of whistling wankers we normally get. There was little I could complain about. He is just another one, like most of the fans, who are hamstrung on the way VAR is used, misused and abused by the people who 'govern' the game!
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I guess I just think that when he didn’t see anything definitive from the left side of the screen, if he had just looked at the right side ONE SINGLE TIME he would have seen what he needed. Didn’t do it, so only saw one single view out of possibly four or five available.

Surely he is able to ask to see every angle? Or, ask to see a different angle again?

It just didn’t make sense on such an important call to just see one angle, shrug your shoulders, and say “Fuck it, goal!”
 
gavvo said:
We can all look for all sorts of reasons. But the fact is no VAR we are through. If they were clear and obvious errors we would accept it. They weren't.
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What is clear and obvious is that VAR is clearly and obviously being used to ill-effect. VAR should be correcting errors but what it seems to do on too many occasions is to compound them. Why is it that football's use of technology is, among all the sports relying on it for accurate decision making is just a fucking shambles whether yer on the honey end of the stick or the shitty end! I watch tennis and when the shadow hits the court I think 'Ah, got it'! When I watch rugby, and there's the view from every which way, I think they've got that as right as they could have, and when I watch a cricket dismissal I think the use of technology just shows how much the umpire can get wrong. In football, I am left too often thinking that the decision at which they arrived after watching some angle or other (seemingly not all angles), and not a frame of which we get to see, is still as doubtful after the game as it was at the time! For a multinational, multibillion dollar, dirham, pound sport it is calamitous! I wonder how satisfied are FIFA with the way it's operated and whether they regard its operation as successful?
 
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