Spurs thread 2019/20

[JimB]

You said “he’s never tested himself” as though he has deliberately avoided the challenge, which is not quite the same as the above comment. Anyway, it’s a completely unnecessary pop at Pep which makes no sense.
And it’s a bit of a stretch to say he can’t be compared to other managers, unless you believe Pochettino’s idiotic comment about winning being good for nothing except egos or whatever it was he said.

Poorly worded on my part. “Never been tested” would have been better. As I said, it wasn’t a pop at Pep at all. Simply a statement of fact.

And I didn’t say that he can’t be compared to other managers at all. Just that any comparison is inevitably unsatisfactory. You won’t be comparing precisely like for like. Who knows what Poch might have won had he been managing Barca, Bayern and City instead of Espanyol, Southampton and Spurs? And vice versa for Pep.

Once again, let me stress that that isn’t a pop at Pep. He has earned the right to manage the clubs he has managed.

 

[JimB]

His year at Barca B not count for anything? Genuine question, I'm not that familiar with the lower tiers in Spanish football or if Barca B enjoy financial advantages over their rivals.

I’m afraid that I’m as ignorant as you in that regard!

But I guess that it’s not really comparable. The emphasis at Barca B will be on player development rather than results.

 

[Rolee]

I’m afraid that I’m as ignorant as you in that regard!

But I guess that it’s not really comparable. The emphasis at Barca B will be on player development rather than results.

I don’t see why it isn't comparable, he tested himself at a lower level first, passed with flying colours and earned his promotion to manage the senior side.

The emphasis may be on player development, he didn't fare too badly on that score with Busquets, Pedro and Thiago but the league is competitive as they're playing A sides from other clubs.

 

[JimB]

I don’t see why it isn't comparable, he tested himself at a lower level first, passed with flying colours and earned his promotion to manage the senior side.

The emphasis may be on player development, he didn't fare too badly on that score with Busquets, Pedro and Thiago but the league is competitive as they're playing A sides from other clubs.

But the pressures are completely different. Nor will he have had responsibility for / input into player purchases - or many of the other responsibilities that are normally integral to a manager’s / head coach’s role.

 

[the talisman]

Poorly worded on my part. “Never been tested” would have been better. As I said, it wasn’t a pop at Pep at all. Simply a statement of fact.

And I didn’t say that he can’t be compared to other managers at all. Just that any comparison is inevitably unsatisfactory. You won’t be comparing precisely like for like. Who knows what Poch might have won had he been managing Barca, Bayern and City instead of Espanyol, Southampton and Spurs? And vice versa for Pep.

Once again, let me stress that that isn’t a pop at Pep. He has earned the right to manage the clubs he has managed.

Poorly worded or a stealthy dig?
Doesn’t matter anyway, his record wherever he has worked is nothing short of astonishing, the football he gets his teams playing is fantastic, and his ability to improve players is universally accepted.
You will never find 2 managers with identical career paths so we are stuck doing what we have always done, which is to judge them on their results.

 

[Rolee]

But the pressures are completely different. Nor will he have had responsibility for / input into player purchases - or many of the other responsibilities that are normally integral to a manager’s / head coach’s role.

Good read here if you're interested

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ictory-with-barcelona-b-should-not-be-ignored

This line stood out for me

"It quickly became apparent that the B team was better run than Frank Rijkaard's first team."

 

[JimB]

Poorly worded or a stealthy dig?
Doesn’t matter anyway, his record wherever he has worked is nothing short of astonishing, the football he gets his teams playing is fantastic, and his ability to improve players is universally accepted.
You will never find 2 managers with identical career paths so we are stuck doing what we have always done, which is to judge them on their results.

How many more times do I have to tell you that it wasn’t a pop at Pep or that I hugely respect what he has achieved and how his teams play? How much further clarification and reassurance do you want?

Agreed that we have no choice but to live with unsatisfactory comparisons. But, to get back to the original subject of this discussion, it’s simply wrong to judge a manager on no criteria other than what he has or hasn’t won - as some have judged Poch on here. He has done a phenomenal job at Spurs on very limited resources. Players love him. The likes of Real Madrid and Man Utd covet him. For people to claim that he isn’t a draw just because he isn’t Pep is just ignorant and halfwitted.

 

[JimB]

Good read here if you're interested

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ictory-with-barcelona-b-should-not-be-ignored

This line stood out for me

"It quickly became apparent that the B team was better run than Frank Rijkaard's first team."

That’s great. And no one is questioning Pep. But you still have to admit that it isn’t anything like managing the first team and all the pressures, responsibilities and expectations that go with it.

 

[Rolee]

That’s great. And no one is questioning Pep. But you still have to admit that it isn’t anything like managing the first team and all the pressures, responsibilities and expectations that go with it.

Fair enough but I don't believe what he did there should be dismissed either when it comes to the argument that he hasn't been tested.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Ndombele is playing for Spurs because City preferred Rodri. Most fans accept that. Did Pochettino make a difference? Sure. He persuaded him to sign for Spurs rather than United, Liverpool, Juve or West Ham.



This argument that Spurs not winning things means they are not a valid club is lazy and simply wrong . Because Spurs have not won anything, they cant sign Ndombele? Because they are not winning anything, they can't build a fancy new stadium? Because Spurs are not winning anything they cant get a big sponsorship deal? Because Spurs are not winning anything they can't expect to play in the Champions League? Because Spurs are not winning anything, we cant aim high. Because Spurs are not winning anything we cant be proud of our club. Because Spurs are not winning anything we cant consider ourselves a leading club. Because Spurs are not winning anything, we cant have hope or expectations.

It's bollocks. The sort of argument loved by TalkSport and their disgusting sycophants which they use to drive the vulnerable into debt and desperation.

Spurs are a very good club. We have a luxury new stadium which will be mostly full of fans from all over the World. A strong brand. We have good players. A good manager. And a realistic chance of winning a trophy. So to suggest we are not valid club is... well... a bit silly.

I haven't said they aren't a valid club, and nor would I; every club is valid as far as I am concerned. Not quite sure why you've deducted that from my post.

Upon reflection, I'll readily accept that what I posted was a bit OTT, brought about by being a little 'tired and emotional', however my point very much remains. Some Spurs fans (and it is a minority, as I find most to be pretty sound) have a grossly over-inflated sense of their club's standing, in terms of how they convey that perception to the wider world - especially when looking down their nose at City; when the reality is that their overall trophy haul and crowds (historically) are actually pretty modest.

I also accept that the future is looking very positive for Spurs as a club: they've got a truly incredible stadium and a very good group of players, but they need to break the enduring and inherent mental weakness on the pitch that has hampered the club so much in the last couple of decades. Winning a trophy will help enormously in that regard.

Your Talk Sport analogy was a complete non-sequitur btw.

 

[Sir peace frog]

But the pressures are completely different. Nor will he have had responsibility for / input into player purchases - or many of the other responsibilities that are normally integral to a manager’s / head coach’s role.

Your actually saying pep needs to go to Wycombe to prove himself, he doesn't, there isn't a team in world football or fan for that matter who wouldn't swap pep for their manager ,not even the great poch

 

[JimB]

I haven't said they aren't a valid club, and nor would I; every club is valid as far as I am concerned. Not quite sure why you've deducted that from my post.

Upon reflection, I'll readily accept that what I posted was a bit OTT, brought about by being a little 'tired and emotional', however my point very much remains. Some Spurs fans (and it is a minority, as I find most to be pretty sound) have a grossly over-inflated sense of their club's standing, in terms of how they convey that perception to the wider world - especially when looking down their nose at City; when the reality is that their overall trophy haul and crowds (historically) are actually pretty modest.

I also accept that the future is looking very positive for Spurs as a club: they've got a truly incredible stadium and a very good group of players, but they need to break the enduring and inherent mental weakness on the pitch that has hampered the club so much in the last couple of decades. Winning a trophy will help enormously in that regard.

Your Talk Sport analogy was a complete non-sequitur btw.

Just about the crowds........Spurs has the third highest all time average league crowds in the country. And it’s the only club never to have had an average crowd below 20K since entering the Football League. That’s not to say that Spurs are massive or historically bigger than City. It’s just to say that, if Spurs’ crowds were historically “modest”, then so were pretty much every other clubs’ crowds. In that respect, I’d say that our two clubs are pretty much on a par.

 

[JimB]

Your actually saying pep needs to go to Wycombe to prove himself, he doesn't, there isn't a team in world football or fan for that matter who wouldn't swap pep for their manager ,not even the great poch

Umm......no, I’m not saying that.

 

[Sir peace frog]

Umm......no, I’m not saying that.

good or I will get very very cross with you :)

 

[Proy]

How many more times do I have to tell you that it wasn’t a pop at Pep or that I hugely respect what he has achieved and how his teams play? How much further clarification and reassurance do you want?

Agreed that we have no choice but to live with unsatisfactory comparisons. But, to get back to the original subject of this discussion, it’s simply wrong to judge a manager on no criteria other than what he has or hasn’t won - as some have judged Poch on here. He has done a phenomenal job at Spurs on very limited resources. Players love him. The likes of Real Madrid and Man Utd covet him. For people to claim that he isn’t a draw just because he isn’t Pep is just ignorant and halfwitted.

Sorry fella but I've got to call you out here. You are a wise man, I'll give you that.

At the end of the day you have made a statement, then switched the words around which for me, only made it worse.

You have said pep hasn't tested himself. That is the argument. Dont care how much respect you have for him, how much love you may pretend to portray because imo, that is just a cover for a nicely veiled dig.

So I'll put this on the table for you. Explain to this board why you believe he 'hasn't tested himself'

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Just about the crowds........Spurs has the third highest all time average league crowds in the country. And it’s the only club never to have had an average crowd below 20K since entering the Football League. That’s not to say that Spurs are massive or historically bigger than City. It’s just to say that, if Spurs’ crowds were historically “modest”, then so were pretty much every other clubs’ crowds. In that respect, I’d say that our two clubs are pretty much on a par.

I'd agree they are/were on a par, but that attendance figure you've quoted surprises me; if I'd guessed i would have said you were fifth or six (which arguably shouldn't be described as 'modest' in any event!)

tbh how 'big' a club is really shouldn't matter (it doesn't to me) and to those it does it's usually borne out of a sense of insecurity. My point was about those Sours fans to whom it clearly does matter, as their perception is misconceived.

Anyway, given that it doesn't really matter I'll leave it there, especially as you are one of the best and most patient non-City supporting posters on here :-)

 

[JPBB]

I haven't said they aren't a valid club, and nor would I; every club is valid as far as I am concerned. Not quite sure why you've deducted that from my post.

Upon reflection, I'll readily accept that what I posted was a bit OTT, brought about by being a little 'tired and emotional', however my point very much remains. Some Spurs fans (and it is a minority, as I find most to be pretty sound) have a grossly over-inflated sense of their club's standing, in terms of how they convey that perception to the wider world - especially when looking down their nose at City; when the reality is that their overall trophy haul and crowds (historically) are actually pretty modest.

I also accept that the future is looking very positive for Spurs as a club: they've got a truly incredible stadium and a very good group of players, but they need to break the enduring and inherent mental weakness on the pitch that has hampered the club so much in the last couple of decades. Winning a trophy will help enormously in that regard.

Your Talk Sport analogy was a complete non-sequitur btw.

Thank you.

I railed against a perceived insult of something I love.

Today I'd say most Spurs fans look at City with admiration. However, I accept that in the past this was clearly not so and I think we did once consider ourselves a bigger, better, more successful club.

We'd all like to win something. If for no other reason to put the Spurs are bottlers, mentally weak, etc. rubbish to bed once and for. The TalkSport reference refers to the cliches which is part of their DNA - City buy the title. Spurs are bottlers. Arsenal are a badly managed shambles. On the other hand Liverpool are deserving, United position is a mere blip and they will soon return to reclaim their position at the top, Chelsea are classy, quality and get the job done (particularly now Frank is in charge), Cardiff are plucky underdogs. etc. None of which is true.

And all of this pointless bullshit just to sell building supplies and to keep the profits rolling in for their vile friends in the betting industry. Meanwhile 2 people a day kill themselves because of their gambling debts.

 

[mat]

Unholy alliance

 

[JPBB]

Unholy alliance

Not surprising. Pochettino is Bielsa's love child.

 

[jimmygrimblesboots]

over six weeks and i still cannot forgive Spuds for bottling the Champs league final , they have now helped to create a monster , the Dippers are going to dine out on their one trophy in fifteen years for the next............fifteen years, Pochetino you let the football nation down , shame on you :)