The Labour Party

[Ban-jani]

That is what the media want you to believe Ban, don't be so naïve, there has always been an element of anti Semitism across the UK on the extremes of politic's, both left and right. But being hard left does not mean you are automatically anti-Semitic, that is nonsense. Socialism is more class based not racial based although you would think differently given the coverage it gets. It is almost anti semitic in itself to assume that the hard left is that way because you then automatically assume Jews are upper class and do control the money etc etc. Which of course is palpable nonsense. Jewish voice for Labour have repeatedly tried to get this message across but it is marginalised and gets no coverage because it does not fit the narrative. You can back this up by the lazy assumption that all muslims are working class so they will automatically vote Labour. which again is palpable nonsense. This is an example of how lazy stereotyping is affecting UK politics to such a degree.

Of course it was harrowing to watch those young people being interviewed and there should be no place in the UK for any form of racial hatred, those who perpertrate it should be banned from the party and reported for hate crimes.

Could Labour have done more, yes they could, i have no doubt about that at all and it handled the situation poorly, figures though put it at 0.06% of the membership and considering the party has over 400,000 members its hardly surprising some of the nutters slip the net. Corbyn has been unambigious in his condemnation of those involved yet it does reflect back onto him as leader, whilst the real fault lies in my opinion with the parties vetting and disciplinary procedures. This is no excuse but it is not easy to monitor the huge amount of stuff that is on social media nowadays and it does amplify issues. An example would be look at this small part of one forum and you see daily people post stuff that is fucking dreadful on many subjects and the procedures here don't always deal with it appropriately. Can you blame Ric for the stuff that is posted?

I absolutely don’t believe that hard left automatically means anti-Semite. But with politics you get certain groups who rally around a particular cause and at this point it seems a larger proportion of those on the hard left, have taken the Palestinian struggle as their own and have become obsessed with it. This is a particular group that have rallied around Corbyn to the extent that he’s almost become the messiah to them.

You and I both know that Israel’s behaviour is unacceptable and atrocities on the West Bank must be opposed, that doesn’t make us antisemitic. But it seems a lot of these new Labour members and this particular group of the hard left, have strayed beyond reasonable criticism and have turned on some of their own.

I know you’re not antisemitic and are what I’d class has further to the left than pretty much everyone in my close group of family and mates.

I just think a proportion of them, that have become members, have lost sight of what their struggle actually is, as you say it’s an economic one here, and have become paranoid conspiracy nuts, thinking fellow labour members are Israeli stooges.

Corbyn’s latest manifesto was one in which I approved - apart from the Brexit bit. It’s not an opposition to left policies from me, I just think Labour have lost the plot a bit and whilst it is still the minority, as you’ve pointed out, it’s clearly not being dealt with by the leadership and they’ve actively intervened incorrectly and at the wrong times.

I’m not just taking the media as gospel, most of the people interviewed were either in positions where they had influence - such as the disputes team - or/and were Labour members their whole lives and classed themselves as socialists.

I really think we need to listen to them and people in the party and they specifically stated it was a very sharp increase in issues from 2015 onwards.

The disputes team are neutral and one manager confirmed she was neither necessarily Blairite, nor Corbynite.

I think just blaming this on a media campaign against Corbyn isn’t accurate and whilst I agree the media definitely have it in for him, this is coming from inside the party.

Just because the media are after him, it doesn’t mean all accusations are false.

 

[George Hannah]

Just watched last night's penultimate 'This Week' on iPlayer, very educative discussion on the current Labour Party issues - finished with the Mark Twain line "I've experienced some terrible things in my life - and some of them actually happened" I think Neil could head up our new Middle Party come the GE reckoning.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b006mvhd/this-week

 

[yerwot?]

so that's it then...labour are anti-jewish....
therefore no-deal brexit a.s.a.p.
Whistlin' hava nagila in the dark more like
Clutchin' at straw-steins
Good job the beeb is far-left, (ha fkn ha), no mention of JC's links to hitler and final solutions, phew, dodged a pickled herring there
Pragmatic response...all us lefties become jewish to show solidarity, (fck palestine, there's a g.e. to be won) and bask in the benign spotlight of tory approval.
Apart from the jewish billionaire media barons, who decided that discomforting 30 or 40 party members for their religious beliefs was infinitely worse than the far-right war on the millions of poor people for their accident of birth?
Imo trashing the labour party is just wasted effort, they are history, for many reasons, too many powerful enemies being the killer, fptp has prolonged the demise, they are a shadow of a shadow, faced with the circus of incompetence and greed that is the tory party barely managed a shot on goal...ffs.
I despair, I really do........(umlaut@professionalvictim.co.uk. )

 

[Ban-jani]

so that's it then...labour are anti-jewish....
therefore no-deal brexit a.s.a.p.
Whistlin' hava nagila in the dark more like
Clutchin' at straw-steins
Good job the beeb is far-left, (ha fkn ha), no mention of JC's links to hitler and final solutions, phew, dodged a pickled herring there
Pragmatic response...all us lefties become jewish to show solidarity, (fck palestine, there's a g.e. to be won) and bask in the benign spotlight of tory approval.
Apart from the jewish billionaire media barons, who decided that discomforting 30 or 40 party members for their religious beliefs was infinitely worse than the far-right war on the millions of poor people for their accident of birth?
Imo trashing the labour party is just wasted effort, they are history, for many reasons, too many powerful enemies being the killer, fptp has prolonged the demise, they are a shadow of a shadow, faced with the circus of incompetence and greed that is the tory party barely managed a shot on goal...ffs.
I despair, I really do........(umlaut@professionalvictim.co.uk. )

I’m left wing, pro-Labour and remain.

I think there’s a massive problem with antisemitism in the party and it needs to be resolved severely before I will vote for them again.

They are institutionally racist at present and therefore I’ll vote Green in the next GE.

 

[Postman Pep]

I’m left wing, pro-Labour and remain.

I think there’s a massive problem with antisemitism in the party and it needs to be resolved severely before I will vote for them again.

They are institutionally racist at present and therefore I’ll vote Green in the next GE.

How does a problem that a very small percentage of the memberships make a party institutionally racist ?

 

[Ban-jani]

How does a problem that a very small percentage of the memberships make a party institutionally racist ?

It’s how the party reacts and deals with it. They’ve lied and intervened when they shouldn’t have, whilst telling the public they didn’t.

You don’t need to have the majority displaying racist behaviour to be institutionally racist, it’s the how the minority become the tail that shakes the dog, how the leadership choose to react and the procedures in place to deal with it.

Labour are failing on the above and that’s not even going into the dodgy actions of the likes of Milne and even Corbyn.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

All this bickering on here could be stopped if Labour tweaked their main slogan from the last election.

Labour : For the many, not the Jew.

 

[Ban-jani]

All this bickering on here could be stopped if Labour tweaked their main slogan from the last election.

Labour : For the many, not the Jew.

Labour’s slogan still beats “strong and stable leadership in the national interest”.

 

[BobKowalski]

No they don't, Labour is a democratic party. The leader should reflect the memberships goals. He should cajole and persuade but ultimately its down to the members to vote on policy. That why conference is so important. The Tories operate in the manner you say, there conference is a confirmation of the leaders goals, Labours is not. Think of the struggle Kinnock had over clause four.

Clause 4 was amended in 1995. Kinnock started that move and Blair nailed it down. No one is saying Labour isn’t democratic but this does not negate the leaderships influence on those democratic decisions. Take Brexit. Labour membership and voting bloc is majority remain. Unions ditto. Leadership instinctive sympathy is not. Result is constructive ambiguity and Corbyn still insisting that if Labour win a GE the first option will be honouring the referendum and trying to negotiate a Labour Brexit.

Corbyn and his leadership team have an instinctive sympathy for Brexit. Corbyn and his leadership team do not have an instinctive hostility to anti semitism. Both these attitudes colour Labour’s handling of these issues.

 

[Ban-jani]

Clause 4 was amended in 1995. Kinnock started that move and Blair nailed it down. No one is saying Labour isn’t democratic but this does not negate the leaderships influence on those democratic decisions. Take Brexit. Labour membership and voting bloc is majority remain. Unions ditto. Leadership instinctive sympathy is not. Result is constructive ambiguity and Corbyn still insisting that if Labour win a GE the first option will be honouring the referendum and trying to negotiate a Labour Brexit.

Corbyn and his leadership team have an instinctive sympathy for Brexit. Corbyn and his leadership team do not have an instinctive hostility to anti semitism. Both these attitudes colour Labour’s handling of these issues.

Bingo

 

[Postman Pep]

Apology accepted.

Did you watch the programme?

I haven't as of yet but intend to. Judging by some of the reaction particularly the testimonies of several left wing Jewish Labour members and activists who were not approached I'm not expecting a particularly balanced production.

 

[Ban-jani]

I haven't as of yet but intend to. Judging by some of the reaction particularly the testimonies of several left wing Jewish Labour members and activists who were not approached I'm not expecting a particularly balanced production.

What reaction?

The whole premise of the programme was set around Jewish Labour members and the disputes team.

Several of the Jewish Labour members interviewed voted for Corbyn in the leadership race and others were in high ranking positions.

What do you think their motivation is to come out like this and speak against the party?

I seriously suggest you watch it.

 

[Postman Pep]

What reaction?

The whole premise of the programme was set around Jewish Labour members and the disputes team.

Several of the Jewish Labour members interviewed voted for Corbyn in the leadership race and others were in high ranking positions.

What do you think their motivation is to come out like this and speak against the party?

I seriously suggest you watch it.

For example

 

[Ban-jani]

For example

I think the very last Tweet is the only one that matters.

How do you know the level of his involvement in the party, how do you know he’s not just been lucky?

It’s hardly a ringing endorsement of things being all fine and dandy - for the record he’s actually refused to dismiss there is a problem.

Some members genuinely won’t have experienced it but many have and those in the Disputes Department are saying they’ve experienced it first hand, whilst the leadership actively tried to defend and intervene where they shouldn’t have.

You didn’t answer my question on the motivation of those that have spoken out?

 

[Postman Pep]

I think the very last Tweet is the only one that matters.

How do you know the level of his involvement in the party, how do you know he’s not just been lucky?

It’s hardly a ringing endorsement of things being all fine and dandy - for the record he’s actually refused to dismiss there is a problem.

Some members genuinely won’t have experienced it but many have and those in the Disputes Department are saying they’ve experienced it first hand, whilst the leadership actively tried to defend and intervene where they shouldn’t have.

You didn’t answer my question on the motivation of those that have spoken out?

Like he says in the last tweet I have no reason to doubt their sincerity and am not denying that there is a problem, just as there is in wider society. I think that it is some leap to describing the party as institutionally racist. A journalist attempting to answer the question "is Labour anti-Semitic?" especially via the state broadcaster surely has a duty to provide some balance by including a wider range of Jewish opinion within the party.

 

[Ban-jani]

Like he says in the last tweet I have no reason to doubt their sincerity and am not denying that there is a problem, just as there is in wider society. I think that it is some leap to describing the party as institutionally racist. A journalist attempting to answer the question "is Labour anti-Semitic?" especially via the state broadcaster surely has a duty to provide some balance by including a wider range of Jewish opinion within the party.

You’ve admitted you’ve not even watched the programme so how do you know they didn’t provide balance?

As I say, watch it, come back on here and we’ll have another chat about it.

 

[Len Rum]

Clause 4 was amended in 1995. Kinnock started that move and Blair nailed it down. No one is saying Labour isn’t democratic but this does not negate the leaderships influence on those democratic decisions. Take Brexit. Labour membership and voting bloc is majority remain. Unions ditto. Leadership instinctive sympathy is not. Result is constructive ambiguity and Corbyn still insisting that if Labour win a GE the first option will be honouring the referendum and trying to negotiate a Labour Brexit.

Corbyn and his leadership team have an instinctive sympathy for Brexit. Corbyn and his leadership team do not have an instinctive hostility to anti semitism. Both these attitudes colour Labour’s handling of these issues.

I do believe Jezz has a hostility to anti semitism , it's just that he doesn't suck up to the pro Israeli lobby hence the constant attacks on him and the Party.

 

[Ban-jani]

I do believe Jezz has a hostility to anti semitism , it's just that he doesn't suck up to the pro Israeli lobby hence the constant attacks on him and the Party.

Len, you’re a decent poster and therefore I believe you’re better than this.

Can I ask if you saw the programme?

 

[Postman Pep]

You’ve admitted you’ve not even watched the programme so how do you know they didn’t provide balance?

As I say, watch it, come back on here and we’ll have another chat about it.

Fair enough for the record did you find it balanced? As in did it include any dissenting voices against a narrative of guilty as charged?

 

[blueinsa]

Fair enough for the record did you find it balanced? As in did it include any dissenting voices against a narrative of guilty as charged?

Yes constantly via voiced over written refutals as no one who thought it was biased had the guts to go in front of the camera and say so one minister aside.