Var debate 2019/20

[Blue Mist]

Referees will be more wary to give pens in the first place. I'm sure they ain't getting 12 pens with VAR in use.

Oh come on, we saw on Saturday that they would not overrule Blind Pugh for our penalty so when the ref blows for yet another Salah collapse or a Rashford dive they will not embarrass their mate and say it wasn't a penalty. They will be backed up by Sky who will show why it was a penalty and the incident will be forgotten.

 

[ctid1894]

Looks to me like it hit his shoulder!!!! Which is not considered hand ball!!!

That’s exactly what I thought too, it hits his shoulder which is why I was so adamant yesterday I wanted to see proof it hit his arm which nobody could provide all day.

You can’t give Sterling offside for his armpit/shoulder being offside because that tells us he’s allow to play the ball with that part of his body BUT then a week later give handball for the same part of the body for a so called “handball” decision.

It’s one or the other, not both.

 

[Blue Mist]

Regardless of whether the handball decision was correct or not I do think there’s something fundamentally wrong with the VAR system. When this all seeing eye can rule a goal out for something nobody in the stadium, players, officials or fans could see, but is unable to do anything about a rugby tackle in the penalty area then something is clearly wrong. The foul on Rodri was as clear and obvious an error as you’re likely to see.
From what we’ve seen already, and I’ll admit I’m sympathetic to the whole agenda conversation, but this system as I suspected it would be is open to manipulation in terms of how and when it is used.
We got shafted on Saturday, and we can’t even have a go the referee because he had fuck all to do with it.
VAR should have been a system that was fair and we could all trust, unfortunately the operators are every bit as questionable as they always have been.

Quick question, you say you are sympathetic to the agenda conversation, what is your view on Bernie being cleaned out and yet Spurs being given the foul, I know it is not VAR related but I just wonder what your thoughts are.

 

[M12Blue]

Not sure if discussed already but having a ref in the VAR room that is lower profile or less experienced than the on field ref is a problem for me

Take the Rodri pen shout, Oliver somehow misses it, now it's up to the less experienced VAR operator to undermine him, there's going to be some reluctance there.

A simple solution would be to bring in ex refs like Hackett, Halsey, Webb etc. to operate VAR.

The simple solution is to not review every decision and have the team captain use a review option to him. Ref can do as many as wishes for serious foul play but all var should be able to do is show the ref the evidence, not tell him what action to take

 

[ctid1894]

Also Danny Murphy, and Tim Cahill spoke well on MOTD2 last night.

Only a matter of time before you are going to get fans protesting. Banners, tennis balls, people walking onto the pitch.

If it happens again, I'd be in favour of going on the pitch and getting the game abandoned. Fans have been ignored in VAR and my head has been wrecked twice now by celebrating last minute winners only to see it ruled out. The football authorities did not consider fans at all.

I’m in disagreement, I’ve not got a problem at all with last minute winners being chalked off if there’s a clear handball or offside etc. That’s exactly what VAR is there for in my opinion. It’s when those decisions are “incorrect” I have a problem and that’s what we’re seeing in games with us at the moment.

It’s at least 4 “incorrect” decisions now if you consider the end of last season in the Champions League as well, that’s an issue for technology we keep getting told is 100% accurate.

 

[M12Blue]

Not sure if discussed already but having a ref in the VAR room that is lower profile or less experienced than the on field ref is a problem for me

Take the Rodri pen shout, Oliver somehow misses it, now it's up to the less experienced VAR operator to undermine him, there's going to be some reluctance there.

A simple solution would be to bring in ex refs like Hackett, Halsey, Webb etc. to operate VAR.

Agree, would this var ref be qualified to ref a match in prem? If not he shouldn’t be making decisions, re-penalTIES, for Oliver

 

[Bluephoria]

I think it’s quite clear.

1. Handball (even if accidental)
2. Gains possession/control of the ball and then
2i. Scores in the opponents net
2ii. Creates a goal scoring opportunity (can be for himself or a team mate, why does that matter? a gso is a gso and 2ii doesn’t matter anyway if he doesn’t gain possession/control of the ball)
3. Or scores directly in the opponents net with his arm (even if accidental)

So to break that down into two examples:

Llorente CL goal
1. It was accidental handball by Llorente
2. He did not gain possession/control of the ball
2i. Void as he didn’t gain possession of the ball
2ii. Void as he didn’t gain possession of the ball
3. The ball hit his arm then hit his hip and went in, it didn’t go directly into the goal off his arm
= GOAL

Jesus Prem goal
1. It was accidental handball by Laporte
2. He did not gain possession/control of the ball
2i. Void
2ii. Void
3. Void as the ball went to a teammate (Jesus) after he accidentally handballed it, not straight into the net
= GOAL

I agree with this ananlysis on the Jesus goal. There is a lot of talk of any touch by an attacking player precluding the goal, but where does that come from ?

 

[royalblue]

I think it’s quite clear.

1. Handball (even if accidental)
2. Gains possession/control of the ball and then
2i. Scores in the opponents net
2ii. Creates a goal scoring opportunity (can be for himself or a team mate, why does that matter? a gso is a gso and 2ii doesn’t matter anyway if he doesn’t gain possession/control of the ball)
3. Or scores directly in the opponents net with his arm (even if accidental)

So to break that down into two examples:

Llorente CL goal
1. It was accidental handball by Llorente
2. He did not gain possession/control of the ball
2i. Void as he didn’t gain possession of the ball
2ii. Void as he didn’t gain possession of the ball
3. The ball hit his arm then hit his hip and went in, it didn’t go directly into the goal off his arm
= GOAL

Jesus Prem goal
1. It was accidental handball by Laporte
2. He did not gain possession/control of the ball
2i. Void
2ii. Void
3. Void as the ball went to a teammate (Jesus) after he accidentally handballed it, not straight into the net
= GOAL

This is absolutely correct. There is a general perception out there that once there is a handball in the buildup to a goal it has to be ruled out. That is not what the rule states. Laporte would have needed to gain possession or control of the ball after it hit his arm in order for the goal to be ruled out. I am amazed that more is not being made of this. I’d like to see the PL explain the basis on which the decision to disallow the goal was made.

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

Perhaps the solution is each club has a representative placed in the VAR box who can ask for an explanation and see the decision process in action.

I vote for Andy Morrison or Joey Barton to be ours.

 

[asahartford1]

I await ref watch on Sky this morning. People will remember the narrative over the last few seasons
"Ref couldn't make a decision because he didn't see it"

Now the narrative has changed
"There is a high bar, so VAR, didn't change decision."

This implies that suddenly the ref has seen everything and they are not overturning the decision.

So, regards the Rodri penalty, blatant, so did the ref see it, not give it, and var use the high bar, or was the narrative, that Oliver didn't see it, and VAR, also thought it was not a penalty.
So that would make it two people on the planet.

I think I already have the "high bar" script for ref watch this morning.