Transgender Sportswomen in Sport

I'm With Stupid said:
People like to call everything a spectrum nowadays, but I'm not sure it's accurate. Without wanting to get too much into the gender/sex debate, biologically speaking I'd say that the male/female distinction is a binary one that some people don't happen to fit into. I certainly don't believe that the majority of the population are on a sliding scale between male and female, I think almost everyone is entirely one or the other, but there are some people that are a mix.
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That's not quite correct.
I often see people bring DSDs (differences of Sexual Development, often called 'intersex) into this debate, but the number of people born with DSDs is a very very small proportion of the population and the vast majority of that small minority are, in fact, unambiguously male or female.
"Only 0.02% of births are intersex (i.e. sex is ambiguous or there's a mismatch between sex genotype and phenotype)."
(click to see the image properly)
I should add that DSDs cover a wide range of developmental problems, including for example, females who are born without a womb.
 
Mon Autre said:
You've said this in a very matter of fact way but lots of people believe otherwise. I'm female by both gender and biology and that is not my view at all. Other women might disagree but most women I know aren't overly concerned by the presence of transgender women in their space. There isn't one correct view on it.
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I've said this in a matter of fact way because it is a fact.

So when you state....
Mon Autre said:
lots of people believe otherwise.
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You may well be right, people might believe otherwise, maybe even lots of people, but then lots of people believe the earth is flat, abortion is a sin against god, that black people are inferior to white people, but that is a matter of opinion and not a matter of fact.

So when you state....
Mon Autre said:
There isn't one correct view on it.
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If facts matter I'm afraid there is.
 
Transgender people have existed in all societies throughout history, so I think it's fairly uncontroversial to claim that there are some people who are physically one gender but psychologically the other. It's simply bollocks to suggest that everyone is either male or female and anyone who claims to be something other than what they appear to be is kidding themselves or is suffering from some mental illness. The issue is which of these two aspects is the one that we have to take into account when deciding whether someone is eligible to compete in sports, and I'm afraid it has to be the physical, because physical attributes are the whole reason why women's sport exists in the first place.
 
Blue&whitestripes said:
That's not quite correct.
I often see people bring DSDs (differences of Sexual Development, often called 'intersex) into this debate, but the number of people born with DSDs is a very very small proportion of the population and the vast majority of that small minority are, in fact, unambiguously male or female.
"Only 0.02% of births are intersex (i.e. sex is ambiguous or there's a mismatch between sex genotype and phenotype)."
(click to see the image properly)
I should add that DSDs cover a wide range of developmental problems, including for example, females who are born without a womb.
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Isn't that what I said?
 
Blue&whitestripes said:
With all due respect, it's a bit irrelevant that some people have a 'belief' that sex isn't binary (although the correct term is 'dimorphic') because that 'belief' is not fact.
I also know women who don't mind transwomen in their spaces, but I know even more who strongly object to tw in spaces where female privacy, safety & dignity is paramount. I know many, many women *and* men who object to transwomen being accepted as women for sporting purposes. It's not fair and, in many cases, it's not safe.
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The sporting discussion is much trickier for me. I actually don't know what the solution is but I just don't like how these conversations can turn quite cruel and undignified quite quickly. I'm definitely of the opinion however that the sporting implications of transgenderism take up too much of the discussion when it comes to the rights of transgender people across society on the whole.

(I think) Perfect Fumble was widening the discussion to female spaces beyond sport. People will have varying views on this but I just don't think it's great to be speaking in the kind of absolute terms that Perfect Fumble was.

With regards to the example given with the cricket, I don't think there's enough information in the story to make an informed judgement on what's going on there. Is this person getting better scores in the women's game because they have a biological advantage, or is it because they've stepped into a league where the overall standard is much lower due to the fact historically the women's game hasn't been as encouraged or resourced as much as the men's? Did this person play and train at higher standard before they transitioned? Perhaps they are better because they had access to better training and facilities at an early age when they were living as a male. The women's game seems to be growing quite quickly now and the wider cricketing community seems quite receptive to the women's game from what I can see. I don't know loads about cricket but i do have a male friend who plays to a pretty high standard and he's told me in the past that it's not beyond the realms of possibility that you could see a woman batting alongside men in teams as so much of it is about concentration and technique rather than just strength. Would be interesting to see if you see variances like this in a world where the women's game had the same level of funding and prominence as the men's. Would also be interested to know if there are any biologically female players matching those scores. It isn't uncommon to see bigger disparities in sport where the overall standard is lower. i.e you'll get more football games going into double figures at amateur level than higher up the leagues.
 
Blue&whitestripes said:
There has already been a transgender MMA fighter. Fallon Fox fractured their opponent's skull
https://www.bjjee.com/articles/tran...getting-too-politically-correct-with-reality/
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The sad thing about this is that if she'd been told about it in advance, and had then chosen to refuse to fight her, she'd have been labelled a bigot or a transphobe. This is a legitimate debate that is not being allowed to happen because one side has already decided that they are correct and that everyone who disagrees is a bigot who deserves to be harassed and attacked.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
Isn't that what I said?
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I think it's important that people have accurate information. I've often seen it said that "intersex people are as common as redheads" or that they are "1.7%" of the population, neither of which is correct. I also don't think that the phrase "almost everyone" carries the same weight as "99.98%".
You'll have to excuse me - yes, I am a pedant :)
 
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