Transgender Sportswomen in Sport

[TINY]

Not read the whole thread, mainly because I don’t want to. However if the trans-woman isn’t allowed to compete against men and I see many women stating this to be the point, is there an acknowledgement that from a physical POV women are not equal to men?

 

[JULES]

for the life of me I just cannot understand why a bloke wants to be a woman !

 

[Mon Autre]

There you go again. This thread is entirely about trans women taking sporting places from biological women. Nothing wider.

I ignored you first time but ok. PF used the phrase "women's spaces" and I don't believe it was intended in the context of sports teams only. It's a very widely used term in the trans debate and not in reference to sport. For further context, PF had also said a lesbian can't have a penis in the same post which also had absolutely nothing to do with sport.

 

[ninjamonkey]

I posed a question around this subject in one of the women’s football threads over the summer, would a person born a man, now identifying as a woman be allowed to play in the woman’s game, where if they were even a distinctly average run of the mill league 1 journeyman they’d almost instantly become a messi of the woman’s game? If it was allowed, how quickly before it’s also abused? if the woman’s game grows to the point where their top stars are much better paid and have more fame than you’d get from playing in the 3/4th tier of the men’s game then how many would you get doing it for financial gains and fame

 

[Fame Monster]

I referred to CeCe Telfer in an earlier post. Here's another example.

That's commitment.

Just out of curiosity, how far do you have to go in order to be able to compete? I assume you can't just bang on a wig?

 

[SWP's back]

I ignored you first time but ok. PF used the phrase "women's spaces" and I don't believe it was intended in the context of sports teams only. It's a very widely used term in the trans debate and not in reference to sport. For further context, PF had also said a lesbian can't have a penis in the same post which also had absolutely nothing to do with sport.

Thread title is ‘Transgender Women in Sport’

PF said “Trans women want access to a space already occupied” after an OP about a trans woman cricketer awaiting an England call up and averaging 130+ for Kent (since she came out as Trans last year).

Is it not entirely fair to say that whatever team she gets picked in is taking an already occupied space? I’m not sure how you can read toilets etc from PF’s quoted sentence.

 

[Mon Autre]

Thread title is ‘Transgender Women in Sport’

PF said “Trans women want access to a space already occupied” after an OP about a trans woman cricketer awaiting an England call up and averaging 130+ for Kent (since she came out as Trans last year).

Is it not entirely fair to say that whatever team she gets picked in is taking an already occupied space? I’m not sure how you can read toilets etc from PF’s quoted sentence.

And how does PF's assertion, in the same post, that you can't be a lesbian and have a penis fit into your view that this thread has stayed exclusively about transgender women in sport?

 

[SWP's back]

And how does PF's assertion, in the same post, that you can't be a lesbian and have a penis fit into your view that this thread has stayed exclusively about transgender women in sport?

I’ll repeat this:

Is it not entirely fair to say that whatever team she gets picked in is taking an already occupied space? I’m not sure how you can read toilets etc from PF’s quoted sentence.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

This is an interesting one:

Eight of Iran's women's football team 'are men'
Iran's football association accused of being 'unethical' after it is claimed eight players in women's national team are men awaiting sex change operations

Story

Iran does have a history of having high levels of transgender reassignment surgery (second only to Thailand, I believe) but it's still massively coincidental that 8 of their team claim to be transgender.

It's also worth mentioning that they still failed to qualify for the World Cup.

It'll be interesting to see the reactions when Tokyo 2020 comes around because New Zealand are planning on sending 3 transgender athletes, including one in weightlifting where the advantage is reportedly immense.

 

[Sir peace frog]

The sporting discussion is much trickier for me. I actually don't know what the solution is but I just don't like how these conversations can turn quite cruel and undignified quite quickly. I'm definitely of the opinion however that the sporting implications of transgenderism take up too much of the discussion when it comes to the rights of transgender people across society on the whole.

(I think) Perfect Fumble was widening the discussion to female spaces beyond sport. People will have varying views on this but I just don't think it's great to be speaking in the kind of absolute terms that Perfect Fumble was.

With regards to the example given with the cricket, I don't think there's enough information in the story to make an informed judgement on what's going on there. Is this person getting better scores in the women's game because they have a biological advantage, or is it because they've stepped into a league where the overall standard is much lower due to the fact historically the women's game hasn't been as encouraged or resourced as much as the men's? Did this person play and train at higher standard before they transitioned? Perhaps they are better because they had access to better training and facilities at an early age when they were living as a male. The women's game seems to be growing quite quickly now and the wider cricketing community seems quite receptive to the women's game from what I can see. I don't know loads about cricket but i do have a male friend who plays to a pretty high standard and he's told me in the past that it's not beyond the realms of possibility that you could see a woman batting alongside men in teams as so much of it is about concentration and technique rather than just strength. Would be interesting to see if you see variances like this in a world where the women's game had the same level of funding and prominence as the men's. Would also be interested to know if there are any biologically female players matching those scores. It isn't uncommon to see bigger disparities in sport where the overall standard is lower. i.e you'll get more football games going into double figures at amateur level than higher up the leagues.

doesn't matter how much money you throw at it ,or levels of coaching, a male athlete will be stronger and faster than a female athlete, look at the athletes times ,weights and distances men outdo woman all the time, that's not sexist or lack of investment, its just fact.