Var debate 2019/20

ctid1894 said:
It’s very simple, whatever happens just make the “correct” decision.

As fans 9/10 we can tell within seconds whether a decision is correct or not. We all make mistakes and the odd one we could all accept when there’s different angles etc. I’ve personally got an apology to make to @SWP's back with regards to the Martial incident last weekend, I saw a clip from the Scum’s game from behind the goal and it’s clear he was pulled again in the box. I was fucking adamant that the foul stopped outside the box and it does IMO, however the defender pulls him again inside the box from a different angle.

However, the stuff like Grealish, Silva and Rodri’s penalties are just laughable. The Tielmann’s red card yesterday, we all know as fans that’s a leg breaker and a straight red whether it’s intention or not, it’s reckless and dangerous. The Laporte handball is clearly bollocks, he didn’t have a clue where that had gone and there’s no proof it even hit his hand/arm unlike yesterday’s decision at Newcastle.
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I thunk this post refers to the Laporte handball. @squirtyflower
Plays for City.
 
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Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
Interesting that despite the introduction of VAR, there has only been 9 penalties awarded compared with 14 at this stage last season. Needless to say The rags have been awarded 33% of them!
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The Rags figure says it all...………………………. and they are still wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy down the league, ha ha ha ha ha
 
Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
Interesting that despite the introduction of VAR, there has only been 9 penalties awarded compared with 14 at this stage last season. Needless to say The rags have been awarded 33% of them!
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Penalties awarded in the league since the start of 18/19 season:

United 15







Liverpool 8


Spurs 5
City 5
Chelsea 5
Arsenal 5
 
I know it's a lot to ask but do you guys think it's possible for all players who don't take throw-ins to have their arms amputated? It seems harsh but City will need to score more goals to win and I'm not sure that's possible if players are out there running around w/ arms.

I guess it's possible to have them wrapped in duct tape or something a little less permanent but they need to do something.
 
Newman Noggs said:
See Bill's reply above. I suspect you aren't as confused as you pretend to be. Just in case you are that naive, check out the FFP thread too. Do some research
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... and BT and Now TV and Amazon Prime too, and that is only UK channels? And the benefit to TV/ other teams for Watford or Aston Villa getting bad VAR decisions? VAR is a complete shambles without doubt - but a conspiracy for the benefit of two clubs and one broadcaster? Personally I cannot get on board with that. Why not Spurs also, they seem to have gained more from VAR than either of the clubs you mentioned.
 
Colin Bell (genuine name) said:
Sent this to Sky Sports last night as a complaint about Ref Watch. Will watch and see if Dermot is made to squirm.

Since the introduction of VAR in the Premier League this season I have watched Dermot Gallagher escape from being challenged properly by the presenters who have allowed Dermot to justify poor refereeing decisions and subsequent failure by VAR to intervene.

I distinctly recall Dermot's defence of the decision by VAR to disallow Gabriel Jesus's goal for Man City v Spurs when it allegedly brushed Laporte's arm as he challenged for a header.

Dermot pointed to a graphic that sky sports had on screen stating " the following handball situations, even if accidental, will be a free kick...the ball goes into the goal after touching an attacking player's hand/arm."

Dermot's exact words were " I..I don't understand what the confusion is because that is quite clear (pointing to the Sky graphic), We saw it the week before, we explained it, I..I..I think it's quite clear, it might not be what we like but it's there, and it's there, it's there for the rest of the season at least because they will never change it mid season, I can't see that happening, but what I will say, it's consistent, because it's no longer a matter of opinion, it's no longer subjective, the referee each week will make the same decision."

Please remind Dermot of his own words on ref watch tomorrow and ask him why the Newcastle goal against Watford on Saturday was allowed to stand after an obvious handball, when he himself states the handball rule is clear, it's consistent, it's no longer subjective, it's no longer a matter of opinion and the referee each week will make the same decision.

So who are the ones that are confused Dermot, is it those subject to the laws or those applying the laws?
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Sent the above to Sky Sports prior to Ref Watch with Dermot Gallagher on Monday.

This is the reply

Dear Colin,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Please be assured that your comments raised in your e-mail have been
noted and passed to our Sky Sports team for their information.

We always welcome customers' comments and actively encourage viewer
feedback.

Thanks, once again, for taking the time to contact Sky.

Kind Regards
Kerry

Viewer Relations Team
 
Colin Bell (genuine name) said:
Just sent this one to Sky Sports, don't hold out much hope though, but you know what, I'm not giving up, I'm going to keep highlighting this until some c*nt ldecides it's worth looking into. We all have our suspicions that it's to prevent us winning titles but it can't be proven but if we keep asking questions, then surely to god someone with some influence is going to start asking the same questions.

I sent you a complaint yesterday regarding the lenient questioning of Dermot Gallagher during Ref Watch and the blatantly obvious cover up of poor refereeing decisions and use of VAR during the current season. In particular I asked that you reminded him of his statements in regards to the decisions made in relation to the disallowed Gabriel Jesus goal against Spurs and why the Newcastle goal was allowed to stand against Watford this weekend.

I watched Ref Watch today and this was Dermot's verbatim reply in regards to the Newcastle goal. "It didn't get picked up, whether it's eh'm because they were trying to keep the game flowing, do it as quickly as possible, whether it be they didn't have that angle we've got here, I don't know. But what it will do again, I said, I've used this before , it's all about reflection. I think in going forward it will be...... Is it offside? No. Is there a foul in the build up? No. Is there a possible handball? Yes. Go through the checklist , if it takes another ten, fifteen seconds, so be it and we'll never have that situation again."

We have seen that every goal is subject to a VAR review. Why would Dermot even suggest that the officials were trying to keep the game flowing? It was a goal and automatically subject to a VAR review. Why would he suggest that VAR didn't have access to the angle that proved that a handball was used in the build up to the goal? They have access to every angle. The Newcastle goal was very quick to establish as a hand ball and according to the rules applied by PGMOL should have been disallowed but yet it wasn't.

The Gabriel Jesus goal against Spurs on the other hand was subjected to absolute forensic examination and involved a zoom in, close up review to suggest that the ball may have deflected off Laporte's arm even although nobody including the referee or any opposing player saw any infringement. The Newcastle handball is visible to the naked eye and yet was allowed to stand.

Dermot knows that there is a cover up for failures in the implementation of VAR which explains the second part of his statement regarding getting the decision correct.

What I would also like to know is why Sky, being the major contributor to the Premier League is allowing PGMOL to implement their own interpretation of the official rules regarding handball in the penalty area.

According to IFAB the law in regards to handball in the attacking box litigates against three separate ways in which a goal can be scored.....

1. It is an offence if a player scores in an opponents' goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental (Wily Boly - Wolves v Man City, Sergio Aguero - Man City v Arsenal and Nathan Redmond for Southampton last season)

2. It is an offence if a player gains possession/control of the ball after it hits their hand/arm and then scores in the opponents' goal ( Llorente - Spurs v Man City champions league)

3. It is an offence if a player gains/possession control of the ball after it hits their hand/arm and then creates a goal scoring opportunity (Thierry Henry for France against Ireland handballed and then squared it to Wiltord who scored)
Note the difference between 1 and 2. If the offending player scores the goal he either has to do it DIRECTLY or alternatively he has to TAKE POSSESSION/CONTROL and THEN score.
The same criteria in gaining possession/control also apples to creating a goal scoring opportunity, an example of which I have highlighted with the Thierry Henry example.

The above are the rules and if applied correctly means that the Wolves goal from the Wily Boly handball in the first game of the season, the Gabriel Jesus goal against Spurs and the Newcastle goal at the weekend are all legitimate as they do not meet the rules applied by IFAB.
Yet the Newcastle handball is the only one that stood.

I was a fan of VAR as I believed it would be implemented in a way that would correct obvious mistakes that officials on the field might have made. It appears that VAR is being used to defend refereeing decisions whether obviously wrong or debatable and nobody is answerable to the incompetence which is evident to everybody but them.

You people have the ability to threaten to withdraw your sponsorship of television rights unless the people in charge stop disguising their incompetence as excellence.

This needs to change and you people have the power to do it, so do something about it.
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This is the reply

Hi Colin



Thanks for your email to Sky.



I can confirm that this is currently receiving our attention and a reply will be forwarded shortly.



Once again, thanks for taking the time to contact Sky.



Kind regards



Robin

Viewer Relations


Anybody think I'll get a reply?
 
dennishasdoneit said:
Who do you support?
Or is the clue in your user name. .i.e. your job...?
Exactlywhat is it that makes u want to dive straight into our var debate within days of joining .BM .and with no messages posted in any other thread?
I don't think your confused one bit; just on the wind-up ...not very subtle tho.
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I support Liverpool - it was mentioned when I jumped straight into the debate - that post is probably about 50 pages back by now, if not more. I am a motorcycle courier and have absolutely no affiliations with the press. I have been following this VAR debate for quite some time now - I am genuinely interested - I also read the posts on the Watford site. VAR affects all supporters one way or another, and if this site is happy to accept supporters of other clubs then those that register should also be allowed to engage in debates. In this instance I was looking for clarification between it being about the money, or being about favouring two specific clubs - I didn't see a connection, which has been clarified as being SKY TV, aparently benefiting financialy by a boost in global subscriptions if VAR is administered with bias towards two teams. I am not closed to the idea of VAR being used in a corrupt manner, as many on here have suggested, but I would be more inclined to think gambling rather than TV subscriptions - now that would affect results for all clubs, which appears to me to be the way VAR has presented itself so far - ludicrous decisions randomly implemented.
 
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Colin Bell (genuine name) said:
This is the reply

Hi Colin



Thanks for your email to Sky.



I can confirm that this is currently receiving our attention and a reply will be forwarded shortly.



Once again, thanks for taking the time to contact Sky.



Kind regards



Robin

Viewer Relations


Anybody think I'll get a reply?
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CB

You are right to continue pursuing this.

Keep it going.

The good will prevail.

I still have not seen an adequate explanation for the winning goal of Jesus v Spurs being disallowed by reference to the specific wording of the new Laws. We all know though that it was examined to the nth degree at length to find a 'reason' to rule it out. This remains an absolute disgrace.

Sky's last Sunday Supplement did cover this and Martin Samuel pointed out the clear and obvious errors both of referees and VAR.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Yeah it made me sit up, but looking at the last 5 years we're quite a lot more than anyone else in the top 6


Arsenal 25
Chelsea 22
Liverpool 26
Manchester City 37
Manchester United 27
Tottenham Hotspur 26

Maybe things are not as bad with pens as I thought
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I'd like to see a breakdown of how many of them were 'game changers' and how many were given when we already 3-0 up
 
Presse said:
I support Liverpool - it was mentioned when I jumped straight into the debate - that post is probably about 50 pages back by now, if not more. I am a motorcycle courier and have absolutely no affiliations with the press. I have been following this VAR debate for quite some time now - I am genuinely interested - I also read the posts on the Watford site. VAR affects all supporters one way or another, and if this site is happy to accept supporters of other clubs then those that register should also be allowed to engage in debates. In this instance I was looking for clarification between it being about the money, or being about favouring two specific clubs - I didn't see a connection, which has been clarified as being SKY TV, aparently benefiting financialy by a boost in global subscriptions if VAR is administered with bias towards two teams. I am not closed to the idea of VAR being used in a corrupt manner, as many on here have suggested, but I would be more inclined to think gambling rather than TV subscriptions - now that would affect results for all clubs, which appears to me to be the way VAR has presented itself so far - ludicrous decisions randomly implemented.
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A liverpool fan? no wonder you won't accept it
 
Presse said:
I support Liverpool - it was mentioned when I jumped straight into the debate - that post is probably about 50 pages back by now, if not more. I am a motorcycle courier and have absolutely no affiliations with the press. I have been following this VAR debate for quite some time now - I am genuinely interested - I also read the posts on the Watford site. VAR affects all supporters one way or another, and if this site is happy to accept supporters of other clubs then those that register should also be allowed to engage in debates. In this instance I was looking for clarification between it being about the money, or being about favouring two specific clubs - I didn't see a connection, which has been clarified as being SKY TV, aparently benefiting financialy by a boost in global subscriptions if VAR is administered with bias towards two teams. I am not closed to the idea of VAR being used in a corrupt manner, as many on here have suggested, but I would be more inclined to think gambling rather than TV subscriptions - now that would affect results for all clubs, which appears to me to be the way VAR has presented itself so far - ludicrous decisions randomly implemented.
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Football is a multi billion pound, global business. Surely you are not naive enough to believe everything is left to chance?
The ludicrous VAR decisions randomly implemented you mention have already cost us 2 points, +2 goals on our goals scored column and 2 nailed on penalties... and we've only played 4 games ffs!
 
karen7 said:
A liverpool fan? no wonder you won't accept it
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... you knew this already - although if I remember correctly you catagorised me as another fucking deluded dipper - what am I supposed to be accepting, that VAR is solely for the benefit of SKY, Liverpool and Man Utd? Ok, the first, however unrealistic I believe that to be, could carry some weight inasmuch as someone somewhere could be influencing VAR decisions to benefit financialy, but VAR being introduced solely for the purpose of aiding two specific clubs, and to the detriment, specifically, of one other club in the pursuit of achieving that agenda? City, amongst others, have been robbed by VAR, but to suggest that it's solely for Liverpool or anyone else? The way I see it, it was Spurs who benefitted from the decision against Jesus, perhaps that's the real agenda? Spurs top 4? Why is that any less likely than helping Liverpool - and, of course, let's relegate Watford whilst we're about it, just in case they have aspirations. As a supporter of football I am alarmed that VAR is so controversial, regardless of who the decision affects.
 
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Bill the Blue said:
Football is a multi billion pound, global business. Surely you are not naive enough to believe everything is left to chance?
The ludicrous VAR decisions randomly implemented you mention have already cost us 2 points, +2 goals on our goals scored column and 2 nailed on penalties... and we've only played 4 games ffs!
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... almost, but not quite - did say that I can accept that VAR could be corrupt, but not for the sake of Liverpool, United or SKY TV - more like gambling syndicates. The randomly implemented decisions have not all been against you though, have they? Others are taking the hit of VAR ...
 
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Presse said:
... and BT and Now TV and Amazon Prime too, and that is only UK channels? And the benefit to TV/ other teams for Watford or Aston Villa getting bad VAR decisions? VAR is a complete shambles without doubt - but a conspiracy for the benefit of two clubs and one broadcaster? Personally I cannot get on board with that. Why not Spurs also, they seem to have gained more from VAR than either of the clubs you mentioned.
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Football is a multi-billion pound industry. There are contolling interests. A cartel of clubs ensuring that they get the lion's share of the money. In Europe it is the G14, in England that's Arsenal, United and Liverpool. The teams that forced the formation of the PL on the threat of breaking away. They control the product. The media makes money from the product. It's a symbiotic relationship.

If you doubt that, for starters tell me why so many of the pundits hired by Sky, BT, Talkshite and the BBC are from those 3 clubs.
 
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