Another new Brexit thread

[Rascal]

You've obviously got total amnesia about what life was like in the 1970's. Total amnesia.

Happy days???

I know Heath's incomes policy was a disaster. :)

 

[dave_blue12]

But it's okay Chippy Boy says so

 

[BobKowalski]

I think I did.

Apologies @BobKowalski Its fast moving as always and a skim read doesnt always help when replying.

Edit. No i dont think i did lol. he thinks we are going for a no deal brexit and i dont.

Christ this thread!

Nope. I’m arguing the opposite. Johnson is using the no deal carrot to get the ERG votes for the deal then shafting the no dealers later. It’s like promising the DUP no internal border one month and then signing up for it the next. What Johnson did was tempt the DUP into the room by offering a regulatory border and a veto then using their partial agreement to go full customs border. He played them and they allowed themselves to be played. Same with the ERG. Not saying I’m right but based on what Johnson does rather than says it’s as likely as anything.

 

[dave_blue12]

It's just a bit wearing isn't it, the tired old anti-tory rhetoric. I suppose backing a party of lefty losers can make you rather bitter.

You 2 get on well. Children playing together.

 

[dave_blue12]

Nope. I’m arguing the opposite. Johnson is using the no deal carrot to get the ERG votes for the deal then shafting the no dealers later. It’s like promising the DUP no internal border one month and then signing up for it the next. What Johnson did was tempt the DUP into the room by offering a regulatory border and a veto then using their partial agreement to go full customs border. He played them and they allowed themselves to be played. Same with the ERG. Not saying I’m right but based on what Johnson does rather than says it’s as likely as anything.

Who knows which side he's playing but he is playing.

Come Dec 2020 somebody is not going to be happy.

 

[blueinsa]

Nope. I’m arguing the opposite. Johnson is using the no deal carrot to get the ERG votes for the deal then shafting the no dealers later. It’s like promising the DUP no internal border one month and then signing up for it the next. What Johnson did was tempt the DUP into the room by offering a regulatory border and a veto then using their partial agreement to go full customs border. He played them and they allowed themselves to be played. Same with the ERG. Not saying I’m right but based on what Johnson does rather than says it’s as likely as anything.

Yeah I would agree with that mate.

I dont think they have anywhere to go though and know it.

 

[aguero93:20]

Nope. I’m arguing the opposite. Johnson is using the no deal carrot to get the ERG votes for the deal then shafting the no dealers later. It’s like promising the DUP no internal border one month and then signing up for it the next. What Johnson did was tempt the DUP into the room by offering a regulatory border and a veto then using their partial agreement to go full customs border. He played them and they allowed themselves to be played. Same with the ERG. Not saying I’m right but based on what Johnson does rather than says it’s as likely as anything.

They're the ones that got him into his current position, without their support he could be turfed, what makes you so sure it's them he's going to stab in the back next?

 

[Manchester_lalala]

Vote for the bloody deal and take it from there, businesses need to know whats going on and all this uncertainty is just creating a mess. Have a GE after campaign for what ever you wish, can even campaign to rejoin and if you are successful then no one can say a thing about democracy.

But right now surely having some terms and not having the troubles back is better than no deal.

A campaign to rejoin would just add on another 5 years of Brexit shit. Hopefully this deal gets through and the country starts to move on.

 

[BobKowalski]

They're the ones that got him into his current position, without their support he could be turfed, what makes you so sure it's them he's going to stab in the back next?

Gambling on getting the deal through and then winning the next election as the man who delivered Brexit and not needing the ERG.

Not claiming this is foolproof plan but I don’t get the point of delivering a deal and then abandoning it later for the chaos of no deal especially for someone whose ego demands he leave a legacy.

Against this you have Letwin, Gauke and Hammond who aren’t voting for anything until they are sure no deal is off the table largely because they don’t trust Johnson and let’s face it they actually know the guy.

 

[aguero93:20]

Gambling on getting the deal through and then winning the next election as the man who delivered Brexit and not needing the ERG.

He won't win the election. The next election will be a hung parliament. May tried this and failed, he's just going round the same fishbowl. He's got his 52% from the referendum + any who've moved to his side - any who've moved away - the DUP - at least 20 seats in London and Scotland. He's not going to get a majority without the ERG and he'll be left in the same position May was in if he's lucky. Brexit always was and still is a poisoned chalice.

 

[aguero93:20]

Not claiming this is foolproof plan but I don’t get the point of delivering a deal and then abandoning it later for the chaos of no deal especially for someone whose ego demands he leave a legacy.

Bypasses the Benn Act and he gets to not be the shortest serving PM in History.

 

[aguero93:20]

Against this you have Letwin, Gauke and Hammond who aren’t voting for anything until they are sure no deal is off the table largely because they don’t trust Johnson and let’s face it they actually know the guy.

On the other side the same Tories think they can win a majority in a GE and overturn anything these lot pass.

 

[Vic]

But it's okay Chippy Boy says so

He's apparently saying that we do a deal now that leads to trade talks but we'll get a better trade deal if we maintain the threat that we can leave with no deal but of course that means maintaining the fiction that No Deal is a threat worth making as the German car manufacturers etc etc... mcfc1632 will surey approve of this never-ending palaver.

 

[George Hannah]

Even if you take the brexit issue away we still need a GE. With all the expulsions, resignations and moving between parties this parliament now consists of a minority govt and looks nothing like the one elected at the last GE.

Question is, how does he persuade Jezzer to embark on his own annihilation?

 

[George Hannah]

They only renegotiated the backstop after the UK government went back on something they said they’d never do. Not really much point in the backstop and a border in the Irish Sea is there!

It was the No Deal threat wot dun it - the SS UK was gently drifting back to port in Brussells until they calculated it would actually happen.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I know Heath's incomes policy was a disaster. :)

I was referring to your amnesia regarding the mess Thatcher took over from. Heath came before Thatcher.

 

[blueinsa]

Do you agree with him saying I was wrong, when I said in August an Irish Sea border is the only chance of a deal?

I agree you said it in August but what about the 3 year before that?

You consistently said the deal on the table was the only deal and that no renegotiation would take place and the backstop was not for being reopened ever.

That's what MCFC is saying and i agree with him.

its no biggie, we have all said things and been wrong on these threads.

 

[mcfc1632]

He won't win the election. The next election will be a hung parliament. May tried this and failed, he's just going round the same fishbowl. He's got his 52% from the referendum + any who've moved to his side - any who've moved away - the DUP - at least 20 seats in London and Scotland. He's not going to get a majority without the ERG and he'll be left in the same position May was in if he's lucky. Brexit always was and still is a poisoned chalice.

Interesting - you a betting man?

 

[Ban-jani]

Where to start with the above bollocks, when there's so much bollocks packed into a couple of lines. It's a masterstroke of bollocks.

1. I was 18 by the end of the 1970's.
2. Even people under 10, can spot a pile of rubbish 8 feet high. Surprising I know, but they can.
3. So everything was fine and dandy, and the power cuts and mass strikes and shite awful product quality and "customer service" not invented yet - they were all just "cartoons" from Murdoch? Oh, yes of course. Silly me.

Anyone who buys your tripe is a complete nob.

I had you down as being late 30’s for some reason.

Side point I know but this has thrown me.

 

[mcfc1632]

They only renegotiated the backstop after the UK government went back on something they said they’d never do. Not really much point in the backstop and a border in the Irish Sea is there!

Ha - sorry - I was aiming my post at people that understand just how valuable the UK-wide unfettered backstop was to the EU - and therefore people that understand just how much the EU have conceded ground.

I should have perhaps explained that