Another new Brexit thread

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lancs blue said:
Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick tying himself up in knots.

But the Secretary of state for housing, communities and local government says: “We have absolutely no intention of rowing back on the very high standards of workers' rights that we enjoy in this country. We're saying that Parliament will decide and that's the point of taking back control - trusting Parliament to make important decisions on workers' rights or the environment."

But apparently Parliament cannot be trusted to scrutinise in detail the most important piece of legislation in nearly 50 years, it's expected to just rubber stamp that.
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Isn’t the amended deal being scrutinised / debated right now?
 
Yet another iron-clad reason to crash out, "remainers are disingenuous" . Game sett and match. Supporters of a sect created out of fundamental lies by fundamental liars and championed by the world's biggest liar, have every right to add it to the list of remain " disingenuities"; "we will be worse off", "corbyn is not a racist", " brexit will take years of disruptive negotiations", " there wont be a ftz from blah blah ", but probably the one that brexits hate the most "the referendum was undemocratic", and remainers pretending the media had a major influence on the floating voters with it's racist head-lines. On top of that, the remain "campaign" calling brexits thick and xenophobic little englanders, might not be disingenuous but certainly "below the belt", the bastards. Denying that remain is a communist plot clearly is disingenuous, defending the GFA more so. The faux outrage at the proroguing of parliament, a completely normal procedure to prepare the Q.S., laughably disingenuous, forming an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of mp's to thwart the will of the people, refusing a GE, pretending two days is not long enough to scrutinise a 600 page document, claiming may's deal was less damaging than johnson's, just how disingenuous can they get?
I fear there is a tiny whiff of hypocrisy in the air, hard to be certain, just a hunch....
 
inbetween said:
I think the peril for remainers is they are thinking in the now and not tomorrow. They are also looking at remain marches in London containing the same people and treating this as though 65m want to remain.

If remainers only wish to reject all deals to hopefully get a second referendum then they begin to gamble our future based upon the assumption that the people want to remain when that is disputed.

The consequences of that gamble is we miss the opportunity of a compromise or deal and end up with no deal in the end anyway.

I think if we can't get this mess sorted then there will be another fight to have a referendum before an election because Labour and others know they cannot win an election. A Tory majority will probably result and then the Tories could put through any Brexit they want.

Do remainers want a Tory majority where even Tory moderates and defectors like Ken Clarke and Soubry are replaced by Brexiteers? That is probably where we are heading if the deal is rejected.
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Yep, very very true. I think the opposition parties can't see past securing an extension just now. Once that is on, its all up for grabs. The leavers will have most to grab, imho.
 
west didsblue said:
So in the event a vote between Johnson's deal and remain happens you'd vote for the deal?
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I genuinely, and I’m being honest, haven’t thought about that.

I don’t think there should be another vote now in the first place but if it came to it I really don’t know.

That’s my honest answer. I also don’t know, at this moment in time, who I’d vote for at a GE.
 
Vic said:
No. It will still all be about what sort of FT deal. Can't you see the ERG / WTO lines already being drawn? Farage chipping away with "we've not really left"?
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I can but they’ll be firmly put in their place, if Johnson wins a majority.

There’s absolutely no motivation for the UK to not achieve a FTA. The press and leave vote are with him now and selling a FTA against a WTO non-agreement, at the end of the transition period, will be bread and butter for Johnson.
 
bellbuzzer said:
"remainers are disingenuous"
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Bingo or are we imaging MP's who wanted no deal off the table and with that done, a letter sent requesting an extension now moving onto the next stage which is voting against even discussing the deal they demanded be brought back?

Thank fuck you and those you support wont be in power for a long time.
 
Ric said:
Not sure if there is a more vacuous phrase than “just get Brexit done”.
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You can see why this mantra will jar with unreconstructed remainers still trying to reverse the Brexit result but it's certainly not empty of meaning. In the present circumstances it is a singularly appropriate rejoinder to those who are affecting faux exasperation when they are actually thinking 'get revocation done'.
 
Vic said:
Will they be the second easiest negotiations in history?
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My position has always been consistently that we’d have already left with a FTA, had the Irish border issue not been so.

It won’t be easy but it’ll be a lot easier than the last 3 years of mess.

His deal hasn’t even passed yet so we’re talking hypotheticals here.
 
TheRemainsOfTheDave said:
Nothing makes it go away but it resets the democracy angle. Any further voting on the subject is done via means of an election or a better framed referendum. The issue therefore is the pound. Re-joining means we have to adopt the euro which means we never will rejoin, however, perhaps the solution therefore from the EU is that they allow us 10 years to re-join on the same terms should we decide to, allowing political parties to campaign on a return to the current status.
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Way ahead of you.

Vic said:
Gives the EU time to amend article 50 so a former member can rejoin without committing to joining the Euro.
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(6 weeks ago)
 
Vic said:
Haven't you spent 3 years on here wanting to cancel Brexit?
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I have been against Brexit since 2016 and still am.

I just think that the situation we find ourselves in, being very dire, can only move forward and socially heal the country by leaving with a deal and a FTA.

The referendum was stupid, the vote to leave a mistake but now we’ve done it there’s no other option to allow us to move on.
 
Ban-jani said:
Even if remain wins that vote it doesn’t end it.

The leave support, in the public, press and politicians will just say it’s an endorsement we need another deal or no deal, that remain is only preferable to that deal specifically.
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And any political party is welcome to campaign on a no deal vs deal referendum, or ni deal vs remain, or whatever,, and if they get a majority at a GE, then put that to thd people again. As long as they dont campaign 'every preferrable imaginable deal, yet to be explored' vs remain, which is what got us into this mess.
 
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Coatigan said:
And any political party is welcome to campaign on a no deal vs deal referendum, or ni deal vs remain, or whatever,, and if they get a majority at a GE, then put that to thd people again. As long as they dont campaign 'every preferrable imaginable deal, yet to be explored' vs remain, which is what got us into this mess.
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I could support a 2nd ref with the options being

1. Current WA
2. EFTA/EEA membership

I'd prefer the HoC to revoke the whole fucking mess but I'm enough of a realist to know that won't happen.
 
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