Grenfell Tower block disaster

[Le Havre Oswald]

Fuck sake just realised the thread had been bumped. Was thinking "Again" and now I feel bad

 

[kaz7]

I think it's in poor taste to make political points out of a tragedy, but the decision to 'leak' only the chapter of this report that apportions blame to the fire brigade is clearly a dead cat being chucked on the table. There has even been a fair bit of press about blame being apportioned to hotpoint whose faulty appliance was the ignition source. The effect of this is clearly to set the news agenda and public perception prior to the release of the inquiries thoughts about those that took the decision to breach building regs and clad the building in what was essentially a giant external wick.

The issue of Hotpoint devices causing fires has been going on for about a year especially the ones that dry the washing,they should be to blame her

 

[kaz7]

Because if the compartment theory works the flat is safe and if they leave people may have to go down stairways into smoke, meeting firefighters coming up and possibly with hoses as trip hazards.

The issue here is when LFB should have realised the building was gone and "stay put" was no longer good advice (especially when control was so overloaded that calls from Grenfell were being taken in Cheshire by staff with little idea of how the flames were engulfing the building).

Thanks,i suppose an orderly evacuation is the priority but like you say the tipping point was maybe called wrongly
Interesting view from an ex firefighter on the news,he said years ago there would be lots of big fires but the modern day brigade focus on prevention of fires so now when there is a big fire most of them won't have experience of it just the theory of it,makes sense to me

 

[mexico1970]

Inquiries almost never apportion blame where it should be apportioned, blaming the fire service isn't blaming everyone in the fire service it's the easiest cop out the criminals running the inquiry could come to.
Cressida Dick got the top job after a monumental fuck up on her watch, Blair got away with an illegal war and the alleged murder of a scientist, Boris will be no different. The whole system is corrupt it always has been, it's only when we feel like we have to support a certain side do we plug ourselves out of the matrix, this has to stop.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

If there's one group you never blame for anything ever, it's firemen.

 

[Vic]

Thanks,i suppose an orderly evacuation is the priority but like you say the tipping point was maybe called wrongly
Interesting view from an ex firefighter on the news,he said years ago there would be lots of big fires but the modern day brigade focus on prevention of fires so now when there is a big fire most of them won't have experience of it just the theory of it,makes sense to me

It's a known problem. Plus prevention has been so effective that it enables the stats to suggest we need fewer firefighters, then when there is a big fire the whole service is stretched (like the moors fires last year). Homes are being lost because what would have been a small kitchen fire gets out of hand because the attendance time is longer, especially for a second pump to get there.)

 

[East Level 2]

Fuck me the fire brigade being hung out to dry!
What about the cunts that built it?
The local authority that signed it off?

In theory that comes later, but there's no excuse for nailing the fire service for this.

 

[Rascal]

Jesus does EVERYTHING you post have to have an anti-Tory spin on it FFS? Why didn't you just say "council"?

At a time like this instead of thinking about the poor sods who lost their lives and the countless people - including the poor firefighters scarred by this - all you can think of is scoring cheap political points. That is odious mate, it really is.

Is it not cheap political point scoring to blame the fire brigade?

Grenfall was horrendous, I passed the remains of it a few days later on the way into London and it haunted me. To be on the ground whilst that was on fire must have been horrendous for everybody involved, to blame the firemen is just disgusting.

 

[Dubai Blue]

The emergency services always get the blame,they are the ones who run into danger not the soft cunts who stand in judgement of them

Some of the newspapers have been their knobbish selves, but the report isn't seeking to blame the individual firefighters on the ground (indeed it praises their "heroics and bravery"). It's pointing out a policy flaw in the higher chain of command, and I think it's only positive that we can learn these lessons so the same mistakes are never made again.

As others have explained, the "stay put" advice SHOULD be the correct advice if everything in the building is working as it should and the fire is being contained. However, when there is a catastrophic failure in how the building is meant to react, there comes a point where slavish adherence to that policy is clearly counterproductive.

That's what this part of the report is highlighting; circumstances moved beyond what would normally be expected and command on the day didn't react accordingly.

You would hope that the rest of the report deals with what actually caused that catastrophic failure in how the building is meant to react, because that's where the real blame lies.

That said, the absolute **** who leaked just this part of the report clearly has an agenda. It's the Hillsborough model all over again; spread a false narrative and hope that enough shit sticks before the real culprits are revealed.

 

[sir baconface]

This is sad. If certain people made misjudgements, that’s one thing. If others knowingly flouted regs or cut corners, that’s a whole lot worse. Of course it all needs to come out if we are to learn but I do hope things are kept in proper perspective and that our emergency services are treated with due respect.

 

[Fred_Quimby]

What did you expect from this bunch of crooks called ‘our’ government? Hanging the Fire Service out to dry. No support from that shower of sh1t.

 

[franksinatra]

Fuck me the fire brigade being hung out to dry!

What about the cunts that built it?
The local authority that signed it off?

That should be discussed in the next phase of the report to see if blame can be attributed to those parties.

 

[franksinatra]

why are they not focussing on the local authority morons ???

That Dany woman was not coming across well I have to say...always sounded corporate and had an answer for everything ...

Retiring on a few million quid too

Which morons are they and in what context?

 

[Blue Maverick]

Which morons are they and in what context?

Those that signed off a bad cladding, authorised upgrades that compromised the fire stoppage of flats,.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

That should be discussed in the next phase of the report to see if blame can be attributed to those parties.

I'm sure it will be, but the dead cat thrown on the table yesterday ensures the narrative is already set and the fire brigade take the flack. It's like blaming undertakers for people dying.

 

[franksinatra]

Those that signed off a bad cladding, authorised upgrades that compromised the fire stoppage of flats,.

Well that is a very complex argument which has rumbled on for months, a product used all across the globe, so it will be interesting to see if blame is apportioned.

Funny how you do not want blame attached to the fire service but happy for some other area to be targeted.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Fuck me they are going to town on this aren’t they, criminal negligence now, how about getting Boris back for closing all those stations etc, they are a set of cunts, they are nailing Cotton to a cross here, she maybe said one or two things wrong at the inquiry but hanging her out to dry like this is scandalous. Forget about her pension and everything, they are now turning the relatives on them. Politicians have done a proper stitch up here.

 

[franksinatra]

I'm sure it will be, but the dead cat thrown on the table yesterday ensures the narrative is already set and the fire brigade take the flack. It's like blaming undertakers for people dying.

Yes mate agree with that. In an ideal world the report would be published as one but It is balancing people wanting answers (understandably so) and the more complex, I would imagine, investigation into the cladding, who knew what etc and not impacting on criminal investigations.

 

[mancityvstoke]

Which morons are they and in what context?

It's my personal opinion after what I saw very shortly after the fire with my own eyes.

The tenants were complaining for weeks about the refurb which was going on at the time and the poor quality of workmanship etc

It's still happening. My own block is being refurbed and the quality of work and workers is appalling/scary.

The tenants were completely ignored and phase 2 of the inquiry will look at this in greater depth and detail so you'll have to wait I'm afaid for the real culprits to be outed.


Do you know more detail yourself?

I'm not entirely sure why you made that comment.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Well that is a very complex argument which has rumbled on for months, a product used all across the globe, so it will be interesting to see if blame is apportioned.

Funny how you do not want blame attached to the fire service but happy for some other area to be targeted.

If the fire didn’t happen the way it did then there wouldn’t have been such a loss of life, wrong cladding, fire safety compromised in those flats that the brigade knew nothing about. The stay put policy is a sound advice when the buildings are built to the standards they should be, could they have evaluated sooner probably however i was not on the ground then. Cotton shouldn’t have said she wouldn’t have done things differently, she should have said, knowing what we know now then yes it couldn’t have been handle different. They are putting all the blame on the rescuers rather than the people who created the problem, ducking disgraceful and you won’t change my mind.