Keir Starmer

[mcfc1632]

In the wake of the referendum result, nobody has acted with more class and dignity than Flint (especially given that she was a remainer) and if some of the Labour MPs who blocked May's deal had behaved with the same degree of class, they might have kept their jobs. I'm glad her final act was to ensure Thornberry will never be the leader of the Labour movement.

And so say all of us

Utterly odious and self-serving person IMO

One of the prime people responsible for the 'London-centric bubble'

 

[mcfc1632]

The progress side are pushing Nandy and Phillips already, and as I said if the members stay true to form niether would win if they both stand as they will split that vote.

The same could happen with the left if long bailey, raynor and another also stand against each other.

Thornbury has no chance from either side

Strange how women like creassy, powell and cooper haven't been muted as possible contenders

I posted this in the wrong thread - but you will see, for the reasons given, I will be shocked if it is not RLB:

I fully expect RLB to be the next Leader of the LP - and that will be a huge fuck up for Labour.

Is it not straightforward?, because:

• The Leader is voted for by the members​
• The membership is dominated by the hard-left​
• Momentum took action during the conference specifically to get the deputy leadership to be a joint role - with a woman appointed.​
• That was surely done specifically to ensure that RLB could take over from Corbyn when he stood down. Although that is now an unnecessary step - it shows the intent of the hard-left​

Surely for them not to now vote for her it would take the membership to 'see sense' and vote to move to the centre. Not going to happen​

 

[mcfc1632]

Let's be honest, whoever it is will be portrayed as unelectable unless it's a fucking tory

Depends from who's viewpoint

To @The perfect fumble myself and @blueinsa etc. are hard-right Tories - the reality is that we are Centre-Left traditional Labour voters

The reality is that if the next Leader is RLB - as I expect - then Labour (IMO) will fritter away to be a protest group and the LibDems will become the main opposition

What will make the hard-left purists content is not wanted by the majority of the UK electorate - their dream cannot come true

 

[Chippy_boy]

What will make the hard-left purists content is no wanted by the majority of the UK electorate - their dream cannot come true

Ah, but the electorate are wrong. If Labour simply keep telling them the same thing over and over and over again, then next GE will bring success. And if not that one, then the one after that. And if not that one, then the one after that. And if not that one, then the one after that. Repeat ad infinitum. Because you see, socialism is the true way and these stupid voters will get it eventually.

As an aside, very telling that Corbyn and McDonnell have apologised for not getting their message across sufficiently. Doesn't that tell you everything.

Not a hint of apology about the message being a right load of bollocks which was understood perfectly and rejected accordingly. No, the stupid people simply did not understand it.

 

[mcfc1632]

I’m voting for Wrong-Daily hopefully that makes it likely that Burgon and Lady Nugee get prominent positions.

Give it to Abbott;-)

 

[Chippy_boy]

Give it to Abbott;-)

Barry Gardiner is probably responsible for 10% of the Tory vote all on his own. He'd be ideal.

 

[George Hannah]

Is there a more contemptible MP on the Labour benches than Burgon?

 

[mcfc1632]

Red Jonny let the cat out of the bag this morning on his sofa when he said he favoured Long Bailey.

I can only see one possibility for it not to be RLB

I cannot be arsed to look up the process - but am I right to think that the membership vote on the candidates that have been selected by the PLP?

If so, I can see the 81% of the PLP that voted no-confidence in Corbyn orchestrate a selection where RLB is not one of the options

I may have that totally wrong though

 

[Chippy_boy]

Is there a more contemptible MP on the Labour benches than Burgon?

Amongst a stellar cast, he is indeed a shining light.

 

[mcfc1632]

The single lesson Labour need to learn here is that it is more important to get the party elected than it is to be ideologically pure. Ideological purity is great in the sixth form common room, but we need a credible opposition. Listening to the chatter about this leadership election and it's pretty fucking clear they haven't learned this lesson.

That is indeed very true, the PLP will really know this, but.....

Will the membership learn that lesson?

TBF there are a few posters on here that could do with an excursion into the world of reality and wake up and realise that continuing to be wedded to ideological purity is the road to irrelevance

 

[blueinsa]

Is there a more contemptible MP on the Labour benches than Burgon?

No!

 

[blueinsa]

Do Gardiner and Thornberry share the same voice coach?

Fucking annoying in the extreme.

 

[mcfc1632]

Is there a more contemptible MP on the Labour benches than Burgon?

After his interviews since Thursday - certainly not!!

 

[Chippy_boy]

To be honest, a change to the franchise model would be a good policy at the moment. Rail is the one thing that is open to the market yet it isn't subject to competition by what it delivers to customers.

We have just seen Avanti (part FirstGroup, part Italian state..) takeover Virgin on the West Coast but they are using the same trains, the same people... They are promising new trains but of course fare reductions or better value are certainly not part of it.

It isn't a surprise that everyone just drives everywhere nowadays. Rail is just unaffordable and too unreliable if it has to be done on a regular basis.

Whenever I go into Manchester I have this choice:

1) Drive in my comfy car the 30 miles and pay a few quid for parking.
2) Get a taxi to or pay to park at the station and then pay £15 to stand up on a train for 45 mins....

The choice is pretty easy unless of course I'm on the beer!

But the train companies make 3% profit. Is that excessive?

The reason rail fares are so expensive is because that is the government's choice. Rail travel is already subsidized, but it chooses not to put in a larger subsidy on the basis that it thinks rail users should pay for rail travel, and not people who don't use it.

I am not saying whether this is right or wrong or whether I agree with it or not. Merely that this is the way it is. If we want cheaper fares, there are only two options:

1. Drastically cut the unprofitable services - which is most of them. And run trains only on busy profitable routes and timetables. (Probably not a realistic option).
2. Increase the government subsidy.

These two choices could make a big difference. Moaning about a private company making a 3% profit, is neither here nor there and nationalising them would change bugger all.

 

[hilts]

The only Labour politicians I have heard that appear to have a brain in their head are Lewis and Starmer. What the standing is of Lewis in the Labour Party I have no idea.

This apparent ploy of going for a northern woman is amazingly bad and knee jerk.

What Labour need is someone a bit more shrewd because middle England is the important part not the voters of Burnley.

Rayner would be a disaster because she has no political awareness. She comes across as dim, shouty and uncompromising. She appears to have been brainwashed by a union or student body and cannot do or say anything that deviates from a typical left wing pamphlet.

Phillips is similar, a dinner lady with a list of bad things to endlessly repeat.

 

[bluejon]

That is indeed very true, the PLP will really know this, but.....

Will the membership learn that lesson?

TBF there are a few posters on here that could do with an excursion into the world of reality and wake up and realise that continuing to be wedded to ideological purity is the road to irrelevance

Do you apply this to brexit too? If not, you should as the fact Johnson got a landslide doesn't change a thing about what a mess is coming. I do think however that it's probably a good thing that johnson is in charge of this. The man who has promised everything will now have to see it through or everyone will see how full of shit he's been (I am in exactly zero doubt as to which of these outcomes will happen).

As for labour leader, it's Kier Starmer for me, but I can't see the labour membership voting for him. There seems to be this 'we need a woman' charge now. No, we need a competent leader. If that person happens to be a woman, sound, but ownership of testicles should play zero part in the choice.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Blair, Blair, Blair. The landscape has changed significantly, for example Labour will never again win 10 seats in Scotland let alone 45. There are places in the north that will take a long time to repair the damage done by the previous few Labour leaders. Anyone who thinks we can just dive back to the centre, purge the left and succeed is living in cloud cuckoo land. We can't just give up the good work we've done with the youth, the left, BAME communities and the places in the south and London hat we nver thought we'd win in. We obviously need to be more moderate, we need a more moderate leader and a northern based cabinet but we cannot afford to lose millions of voters because some people want to replicate Blair in '97 and forget about the voters he lost after that that have never been regained.

When you put it like that, you really are fucked. Because the Blair-like policies are the only ones which give you a cat in hells chance and if they aren't acceptable to the demographics you describe, then god help you.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Barry Gardiner is probably responsible for 10% of the Tory vote all on his own. He'd be ideal.

I think you underestimate Barry's powers........

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Blair, Blair, Blair. The landscape has changed significantly, for example Labour will never again win 10 seats in Scotland let alone 45. There are places in the north that will take a long time to repair the damage done by the previous few Labour leaders. Anyone who thinks we can just dive back to the centre, purge the left and succeed is living in cloud cuckoo land. We can't just give up the good work we've done with the youth, the left, BAME communities and the places in the south and London hat we nver thought we'd win in. We obviously need to be more moderate, we need a more moderate leader and a northern based cabinet but we cannot afford to lose millions of voters because some people want to replicate Blair in '97 and forget about the voters he lost after that that have never been regained.

I think you are wrong in this assessment. The Johnson government will be redrawing the boundaries, as a matter of course. They will make them all a comparable size, which will be to the detriment of the Labour Party. Next to go will be the fixed term parliament act, so Johnson can call an election when he deems it fit. So, for LAbour to ever win again, they will need middle English votes as a minimum and should really come all out against Scottish independence. They then have a chance of picking up the votes form the half of Scotland that do not want independence as well as some votes of Scots who do not want a Tory government.
Sticking on the left wing will mean none of these things are possible and sometimes you just have to accept that part of the cake is better than none of the cake.

 

[somethingelse]

Thornberry is either very posh trying to sound common or very common trying to sound posh ,and shes taking Flint to court, how silly